Claire Sharpe Transcript
Rhona: Welcome to the first ever episode of the Rest Days Community Podcast. My name is Rhona, and I want healthy adventure to be for everyone. This first season of the podcast will feature weekly interviews with inspirational people who are on the never ending journey to find balance in life, and talk about how outdoor adventure fits into this.
The first of these is the ultimate hype person, Claire Sharpe. Claire came to the world of outdoor adventure, specifically off-road cycling in the last five years. In this time, she went from starting something totally new to becoming a guide, a coach, and now a trainer for new guides. She has learned so many new skills, enjoyed the childlike freedom of riding a bike, built incredible community aimed at sharing this joy with others and even pushed her own physical boundaries. We talked to Claire at a really relevant point in her life where finding balance has become a priority after spell of too many yeses and not enough rest days.
Throughout her strive to find balance, she's determined to make space for others amongst the cycling community in such creative ways. I hope you enjoy.
Okay, Claire, welcome to the Rest Days podcast.
Claire: Thanks for having me.
Rhona: That's all right. We've had a preamble, we're ready to dive in. Yeah. And I wanted to just start with a bit of a vision of what your life looks like now, and maybe we'll get an idea of why I thought you were such a great guest.
Claire: Yeah. My life is completely different to what it has been at the moment. I've recently, stepped away from a job working full-time as a UK marketing manager for a beer brand. And you've caught me in the middle of rest. once my rest is over, then I'm gonna look at tackling a career of a bit more balance.
Rhona: Mm. Okay. So you've just left a job. Mm-hmm. What was life like day to day, doing that job?
Claire: So UK marketing manager for Budvar. It was a real mix, I guess, sometimes office space, sometimes traveling. Had the option of going to Prague, which was exciting. Working with a team that's based all over the country, so lots of remote working relationships, events, all sorts. Yeah, it's quite diverse. Busy.
Rhona: And how did that fit in with the rest of your life?
Claire: It just did 'cause it had to, so yeah, that was a nine to five, Monday to Friday deal. And then on top of that, doing exciting things in cycling, so working as a guide, coaching, tutoring future guides, and putting on events as part of allterre adventures as well.
Rhona: And you've already told me this morning that when you list those things back to yourself, you don't see that list as being that enormous. But anybody listening might be thinking you do what outside of working?
Claire: Yeah. I think when it's something that you love, it's really easy to put that down as I'm doing something fun for enjoyment as well. The lines definitely blurred. I'm having a really great time and that makes it hard for me to quantify it as work a lot of the time as well.
Rhona: That's fair enough. Tell me about the riding you're doing at the moment.
Claire: Well, the weather has been ridiculous. So I've mostly been spending as much time as possible in Wales bike packing at the weekends, which has been exceptional. Just getting out and adventuring as much as possible. So that's a mix of bike packing. Went to Bike Park Wales the other day for some more fun. And also just live in Bristol so epic roots to be had before and after work every day as well.
Rhona: Mm. What does that escape on the weekends, these backpacking trips, getting away, riding your bike?
What does that give you?
Claire: Oh, so much. I just really love the feeling of being in the middle of nowhere and just being a tiny little speck and having got that on my own, on my bike. Mm-hmm. It's like the contrast of working really hard, but getting exceptional rewards for it as well and eating all the food.
Rhona: That is an important part. But if you didn't have this escape, do you think that you would be the same when you're at work?
Claire: I think I'd be a nightmare. I think. It is the same as with bike packing and bike trips in general, that having something really hard makes the good bits feel amazing. I think I need those that time in nature, or I do now as a reset to then be able to apply myself to sit still and do those other things that I need to do the rest of the time.
Rhona: Do you think you could ride your bike all day every day?
Claire: Yes. Would I like it all the time? No. but yeah, totally.
Rhona: That's, that's fun. Do you think that your body would hold up to that?
Claire: Well, I think you just change what you're doing to suit what your body needs. Yeah. For me, cycling is such a diverse range of things as well.
So it could be downhill mountain biking one day, a fun little local loop, another or an epic adventure. And I think the thing I really like about traveling by bike when I'm thinking about bike packing trips is everything is flexible and you just change it to suit what your body can do that day and you can just stop.
Rhona: I love that because your idea of cycling is such a healthy one. You have this amazing relationship with it. you are already saying to me that you would have balance if you cycled all day every day. You would do a mix of things. You would do as much as you needed, or you could do more, you could do less.
That's why bike packing is great, super flexible, but you don't have any need to do the hardest, the longest, the biggest. You do do those things sometimes, but you don't seem to need to do it every day. You seem to be happy to do a bit of everything. You don't have to be. The best at the one thing.
Claire: Yeah. I think also, I just don't care.
Rhona: That's great. I love that.
Claire: So I did the Tor divide recently, which absolutely stunning. Amazing riding that you'll be very familiar with. When I signed up I was like, I wanna see if I can ride through the night and I wanna see how far I can go and it's gonna be this thing.
And then at nine o'clock I'd already climbed more than I'd ever climbed in one ride in a day
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: So getting close to 4,000 meters of mountain biking on a loaded bike and so many people were carrying on through the night and no disrespect to them 'cause fair play.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: But I was just like, I don't care.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: I'm at this really beautiful plateau where I could bivy and the sky was doing all these amazing colours and I was like, that's what motivates me is to end up somewhere like that. With that view. Yes. And yeah, so I think I'm just not built to do those things.
Rhona: I love that. What do you have to say to the people who are out there thinking that maybe sport, the outdoors adventure isn't for them because they only see the pro athletes?
Claire: Yeah. I think that's the same with any pro level of anything. You don't watch the London Marathon and think, oh, I'm not gonna be on the podium, so let's not enter. And I dunno what it is about cycling sometimes that makes people think that the, the podium is the bit that matters. But for me it's about the adventure and the experience and I think that's, that's open to everyone.
Yeah. And you can have it from your front door or hopping on a plane going somewhere exotic. That feeling can be achieved anywhere, I think.
Rhona: That is a really good example actually, the London Marathon thing because it's so enormous and it's something that everybody knows about. Everybody sees, I guess what you would call punters that I think are just runners.
Out on the course, giving it a crack, having a great day. But when we don't see that imagery and we're definitely not having it pushed in our faces as much in other sports, especially cycling, I think is, is bad for that. Now we're having to fill this void. I don't know why it exists. I dunno why there isn't provision for this middle ground.
Claire: Yeah. I think it's hard. I'm thinking about bike packing races maybe when I'm giving this example, but I think it's hard for the organizers to cover the front and the middle.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: What the sponsors and what people who dot watching. A watching is that podium.
But I think there kind of needs to be some balance. It's really cool that it's gotten so popular and now everyone's watching, how do we bring it back to something that can be competitive and interesting, but also the stories in the mid and the back of the pack. Yeah. Hold so much value as well.
Rhona: Yeah. That that's very fair. And obviously you, yourself run a community group that's trying to fill some of this void. Tell us a little bit about your motivations behind that and also how on earth you find time to do that.
Claire: So yeah, AllTerre adventures came about because I just fell in love with offroad cycling so quickly, fell really hard, got all these skills, started adventuring and just thought it borderline criminal that other people
their pathway wasn't that easy. So I wanted to create something where I could help people, fast track themself to the skills and the knowledge to adventure independently off road.
Rhona: I really love that. I love that you fell in love with it. And the first thing was, how can I share this with other people?
That's such an amazing quality to have as a person. Where do you think that came from?
Claire: I think it was wanting to share it with people who looked like me as well. So, um when I first started riding Off road, I found a group of people on Facebook and went and met a bunch of men in a park in the dark, on a weeknight, which when I look back and it was like, that's not sensible.
Rhona: It doesn’t sound so good now. Does it? Yeah.
Claire: In lockdown as well. Yeah. All the things. No lockdown rules were broken, obviously, but they were really kind and welcoming and just. Let me get on with it. And I didn't feel out of place. But then as I started going to other events and seeing more women in different areas in the uk, then it was like, ah, how can I make this happen in Bristol?
Yes. So , started a group called Routing for You with a friend. And we kind of went on separate paths where they wanted to do something that was entry level, very regular, but what I really wanted was to kind of to unlock adventure for people. So that's when Allterre adventures came to be.
It was like, how can we do something that inspires people who might be wanting to ride really fast or really slow, but dunno how to do that on a weekend ride in Wales or something like that.
Rhona: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And now where are you at with that?
Claire: Um, so it is gone through a metamorphosis, I guess.
There aren't so many community rides anymore. Bristol's really well serviced. Mm-hmm. There's so many people doing that, so I don't feel like I have to do that.
Rhona: That’s good you recognised that though. Yeah. And I think you didn't just force yourself to do it anyway. You realised maybe that was, you know, yeah,
Claire: it took a while.
Um, but I concentrate my efforts, I guess, on the parts that other groups maybe aren't. So the, I do a talk series in the winter called Bike Waffle, where we get different people to come and speak about adventures and experiences they've had on the bike as a way to still stay engaged when maybe the weather isn't as exciting.
Rhona: I love that.
Claire: Film nights. So did a women's film night last winter. No winter before. 90 tickets. Predominantly women sold out real quick. So Cool. Watch loads of rad films. Have an excellent time. And then there's the Bristol rally, which is kind of does everything that I want, the, the mission behind Allterre Adventures to do.And that's getting people out for a really fun bike packing trip.
Rhona: I kind of like that. It, it completes the circle, this whole thing of you could go from wanting, being interested, not knowing how to get into it, to learning a little bit about it being inspired, having some inspirational and aspirational characters, gaining the skills, meeting some people to do it with, and then you actually get to complete that full circle by going on your rally.
So I really liked that you thought about the whole process. Have you seen any particular stories, of people who've come through that full circle that, that really, that made your kind of heart sing a little bit?
Claire: Oh, the, there's one person that always makes my heart sing, and I call her Becky, the spirit of the rally.
Last year for the first rally, Becky came and rode it. And just had the best time. And seeing her face every time I've crossed paths with her on the route just lit me up because she'd come over and just have a big grin in her face and, I just didn't realise that you could ride your bike and listen to the bird sing and just look at all these amazing views.
And she was just verbalising everything I wanted to see happen for someone. And it was really cool to watch that.
Rhona: That is so amazing. I absolutely love that. Did she ride at all before she got involved?
Claire: That was her first off-road, adventure. So she'd done a ride, I can't remember, from somewhere to Manchester on road. But she'd not really done any off-road riding, Becky benefited from Tailfin offer of five bikepacking set ups for people that don't have bags so they can join the rally. So she'd been to Tailfin, they'd kitted her. And she just fully embraced it.
Rhona: Mm-hmm.
Claire: And it was really cool to see.
Rhona: Is that feeling that you saw her having, did it remind you of the feeling that made you fall in love?
Claire: Yeah, totally. Yeah. I think that's why I enjoy guiding and coaching as well. 'cause yeah, it's like a little, it dopamine hit I guess, every time you see someone have that click moment, you get to be there to watch it 'cause you're trying your best to facilitate it.
Rhona: What does the escape of an adventure do for you and your brain?
Claire: Um, just shuts it off. I think, there's something about either peddling hard and having to pick your line. That means you can't think about something else. So it's like you stop thinking or you fall off. Mm-hmm. I think that's why off-road really appeals to me.
Yeah. But then you get to the top of a big climb and there's a really amazing view and that's your moment to stop. And pause.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: So it's this mix of two different ways to unlock a kind of flow state, I guess, and connect with things around you. And no emails, no phone calls, no. What's the next appointment?
Because the next appointment is just basically where are you gonna sleep? Yes. And are you hungry? Eat some more.
Rhona: I was gonna say, yeah, if, if you try and stop and pause in your everyday life, what happens? You know, if you're not out on a bikepacking trip, if you say to yourself, I'm just gonna stop and pause for most people, it quite quickly becomes doom scrolling, I think.
Yeah. That's not particularly healthy way to stop and pause. I'm not sure it's very productive, but that what you are describing, you get completely distracted and absorbed and then you can stop and pause and your brain is quiet and you don't immediately scroll. That is gotta be so good for us, I think.
Claire: Totally. And yeah, not achievable for me. The rest of the time. Yeah., So I think it's really important to have the opportunities to go and do that.
Rhona: Yeah. Day to day, when you're in your normal environment, is your brain pretty full?
Claire: Yeah ridiculously full. To the point where I have to tell myself to finish a thing before I start the next one because it's just ludicrous.
Isn't it? You're impatient to finish a task because you've already started thinking about the next one?
Rhona: Oh my God, I resonate with that a lot.
Claire: Trying to work on that, but it's a work in progress.
Rhona: I think that, that as well can very quickly lead you to the buzzword of burn burnout.
Mm-hmm. When I messaged you, you started to throw some stuff out into the world saying, I'm doing quite a lot. And some people have been saying to me that maybe it's too much. Ha. Has anybody been throwing that buzzword at you?
Claire: Uh, yeah, definitely. There's a few friends that come to mind and obviously it comes from a pace of care.
Yes. And they're just looking out for me. I think I'm good at catching it just before burnouts, but I definitely like dance the line and I feel like it takes me a lot longer to recognise it in myself and probably quite frustrating for my friends to, watch me again and again, not recognise it to the point where I've had someone, ask for access to my Google calendar.
No way. Yeah. One of my friends, he was like, I think you should just slip me into your Google calendar and when too much stuff goes in there, I'll just start deleting it.
Rhona: I mean, if there was ever a sign
Claire: that is, yeah.
Rhona: Quite interesting. Okay. If you didn't have these people around you.
Do you think you would teeter over the edge or would you, are you still got some safety mechanisms to keep you on the safe side?
Claire: I think until recently I totally would've just burnt out. Done the same things to look after myself, but probably have been crying whilst doing it instead of catching it before it got to that point.
Rhona: Okay. So I guess, have you ever had a big burnout before where you went, okay, I don't want to be here again? Or is it just this little, little kind of teeter over the edge and to the point where suddenly controlling your emotions is too much of a task?
Claire: I think maybe I had a bit of like a mental health crisis last year, which hit me because I've never had anything like that before or not since I was in school.
Mm-hmm. I think it was compounded by a lot of things and if I hadn't have been doing so much, maybe I could have recognised it sooner or done a better job of looking after myself.
Rhona: Hmm. I do think sometimes doing a lot, especially exercise can be a very good plaster for things not being as good underneath.
Mm. And then so sometimes it's either when you stop or just when you do too much that it comes to a bit of a head. I definitely know that, I will happily use doing outdoor activities as a plaster for things not being right in my mental health.
Claire: Mm-hmm. It's really tricky to find the balance.
'cause obviously it's really great for your mental health on the one hand, and really important for me, it's like part maintaining feeling Well.
But at what point does it then become you are just filling your time because you can't have empty time.
And I think that's probably where I got into trouble last year was a lot of other things happened and it was all this perfect storm, but in the lead up to it, I hadn't been allowing myself.
Empty time to just be and relax and I wasn't really with my own thoughts. Mm. So then when I had some empty time, like the floodgates were open basically.
Um, but also it was a hugely beneficial time because even though I felt awful for an extended period, it made me try harder at looking after myself.
And actually now I feel like this way more joyful version of me that's a lot more appreciative because I've had a hard time and now I'm in a good time. But it's made me recognise what things I need to make myself feel well. Mm-hmm. And what things aren't good for me and to kind of shape my life better.
Rhona: Yes. Okay. So what are those things?
Claire: Um, definitely stopping. Mm-hmm. I am the kind of person that still needs an activity to stop. If I need to rest, it's like, fine book a sauna.
Rhona: Yes. I love that actually.
Claire: So I, and we've had a whole host of saunas open in Bristol recently. Cool.
Which is great. So now I rest more than ever before because I do the thing.
But the thing is going to a sauna. Mm-hmm. I really love making coffee in the morning and now I don't rush it. That's a really nice, quiet, calm way to start the day. And I think implementing something when you do have a job in your day that belongs to you before you give it to an employer is really important.
Whether that's a bike ride or a coffee, like I want to own my day before I give it to someone else.
Rhona: I love that. I've never really thought about that, but I absolutely see the value in that. That's really, really interesting. That's such a cool, cool concept actually. I wonder if other people either do that or, would, take benefit from that, I'm gonna start thinking about that now.
Claire: I think it's something that lockdown took away from a lot of people because if you were working from home, you can just roll out of bed.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: And people were talking about fake commutes and things as well, which I also did, but actually it's just like, think of you are giving your day away if you just roll straight out of bed.
Take your day for yourself.
Rhona: You've just made me realise I'm not a very empathetic partner because my partner it spends half an hour making a coffee in the morning and he says that he needs it and that it's really good for me. He works from home. Mm-hmm. And this is setting him up and I'm always like, for God's sake, it takes so long.
Why wait. It's a coffee getting made for you as well? Sometimes.
Claire: Yeah. I mean, half an hour is a bit of a piss taker, isn't it? You know, there's lots of steps. No, I mean, I, I, I feel for both of you. 'cause I also used to work for a coffee roastery, so I am all behind someone making the coffee properly as well.
Rhona: Yeah, yeah. He, he's just really obsessed with the fine details, but obviously he's doing something good for him, so now I'm going to take that on board.
Yeah. It's probably quite
Claire: meditative to, do it the proper way and take your time and. Kind of a bit like gardening and other things that they socially prescribe to people. You're making something.
Rhona: Yes.
You've got your coffee in the morning, you've been booking saunas. What are the things that if they get included or if they get too much, 'cause the opposite effect?
Claire: Not seeing people and I'll see a lot of people, but it depends on the level of connection. Yes.
So on social rides and things, it's very like surface level. You have a great chit chat and it fills your cup. Being around people and sharing an experience, but making sure, for me, I really value small groups. I find socialising on mass, quite superficial. Yeah. I find it hard to connect with people in that environment.
Mm-hmm. So making sure that I have proper social time with people that I care about and actually if there's too much going on and I haven't made time for those things to happen, that definitely starts to affect me.
Rhona: That's a really good one. And I wonder if when you are really busy doing all this community stuff, you're doing stuff, other people, you're organising things, you probably meet loads of people through your work and marketing, especially if you go to events and stuff, you probably feel like you've seen people all the time, you've been around loads of people, but, and you probably actually do feel a bit drained by that and then you, and easy to think the last thing I want now is more people.
Yeah. But you still need those, those really quality moments with the right people.
Claire: Yeah, definitely. And that fills your cup in a completely different way.
Rhona: Yeah. What do the right people do for you then? What are the messages they're giving you? How are they keeping you afloat.
Claire: I just think when I spend time with them, they just make me feel really good.
Yeah. And really cared about. Yeah. And I dunno, it's, it depends on the person as well. My friend Kerry pops into my head, she's just been there for me so much over the past couple of years, but also we will just start going let in the middle of a ride and then I know the flood gates are open and Kerry's ready to be completely ridiculous and I'm here for it.
I just love that switch. Yeah. And we just, it just happens and it's probably a bit weird for other people if they're around us when it's happening, but I love it. Yeah. Um, and then, yeah my friend Gail, just being around Gail is just. Being in a permanent warm hug.
Different people do different things for me, but it's important to have that proper time where I connect with them.
Rhona: Do you ever tell your friends that they're doing too much? They need to take, look after themselves?
Claire: Try and veer away from telling, because I, it annoys me sometimes. Also offering solutions and alternatives can be annoying as well. Sometimes, you know, you just want someone to just be like, oh, yeah, and just listen. But actually I had a friend the other day who was canceling some annual leave, but also saying they're a bit tired.
So I was trying to suggest that maybe they just move it Yeah. Rather than cancel it. Yeah. Um, because if they are feeling tired, protect that space. But if it's not convenient to do it, then. So I definitely do it to other people, even if I can't do it for myself.
Rhona: Yeah. It's very, very difficult to do it for yourself.
I don't know why, and I don't know where that comes from. Mm. Go back we go all the way back to little Claire. When you were growing up, were the people around you really driven? Was anybody pushing you or is all this drive just come from inside of you?
Claire: I didn't really have anyone pushing me.
My dad lives abroad, so that made it quite hard for him to push me. I mean, he could say stuff, but I didn't have to listen. Because it's really hard for him to enforce it over a phone call. And then actually I don't have a great relationship with my mum, so like those two. Role models that normally would've done these things weren't.But actually I think I got quite a lot of drive as a rebellion against that.
Rhona: Okay.
Claire: It kind of felt like I needed to be independent and look after myself because I hadn't seen that, mimicked for me, like maybe by my mum and stuff. Yeah. So, then I was just like, right, Claire's gonna be strong and look after herself and do these things. I think maybe it was a bit of rebellion.
Rhona: Do you still feel a really fierce independence?
Claire: Yeah. to my detriment sometimes. Okay. Yeah. So that's something I've worked on over the past couple of years is letting people in and being more vulnerable.
Because you can really easily tell yourself that being this fierce, independent person. Means you are strong and everything's sorted. But actually it, it also meant that I was compromising a lot of things as well and hiding behind that.
Rhona: Yeah. Especially you've just told me how much value you get from basically intimate connections with other people, and especially you've mentioned really good friends, but if you are, if, and some part of you is also not allowing that, then yeah, that can be complicated.
Claire: Yeah, definitely.
Rhona: Okay so you're, you're very driven to be your own person. When you were younger, did you have an image of what that would be? Were you like, I'm gonna have a career, I will be financially independent. What did it look like?
Claire: Nothing, nothing was clearly defined, but I think because I didn't have someone pressuring me or telling me what I should do, I kind of wiggled around a bit.
So when I finished my A Levels, I got a full-time job. And after a year and a half or so, looked around the room and was like, God damn, there's a lot of people in here and this is what they do forever now. Right. And I was, I'm not ready to do that. So I went back to college to do, an art course after some friends had convinced me that applying to university wasn't this dark art and I could probably give it a go.
So they demystified the whole UCAS thing for me. Went back to college for two years and then went to uni. But I think that was the beginning of me realising that I'm, I'm much happier finding out I don't wanna do something by trying it, because then my answer is definitive rather than it's a what if.
Rhona: That is very interesting. So otherwise you would just always have wondered.
Claire: Yeah, definitely. Mm-hmm. But also I knew that office work wasn't. Going to work for me in the long term. Yeah. Yeah. But I knew that definitely. Yeah. Because I'd been there and done that.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: And even having all right, money and stuff wasn't enough to keep me there.
Rhona: And then so you changed, so you, when you were at school, you didn't feel comfortable applying to uni or it just wasn't even on the radar?
Claire: Wasn't on the radar. No one in my family had done it. Not many of my peers were doing it, so yeah. Just like it's one of those things where, if you can't see it, you don't think you can be it.
Absolutely. So that wasn't modelled for me. The whole UCAS process just seemed like this crazy thing that I didn't understand. Mm-hmm. Um, so I just didn't do it.
Rhona: Do you think maybe some of this is a part of your passion now as well for, see it, you can be it kind of thing in the riding as well.
You just firmly believe that that's how the world works, which I really firmly believe that that is how the world works.
Claire: Totally I think visibility's so important.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: I love watching the cross country mountain biking and I'm gutted It's behind a paywall now. Yeah.
But um the women's race just gets me hyped in a completely different way to the men's. Oh my God. So, so much. I'm just so excited. Every time I know by the end of it I'm like, get me on a bike this instant.
Rhona: Yeah. I actually totally get that. And I have to say, I think Cross Country's a great example where, because they show the same amount of women, you know, it's the same.
It's the same amount of, I know that race isn't as long for the women, but you know, it is. It is the same. They're getting proper coverage and I think for the last few years the women's has been way more exciting.
Claire: Totally. Yeah. There's actually a race to be watching. Yeah. And stuff changes every lap. Yeah. It's amazing.
It's so good. And then they're riding gnarly trails in Lycra. Yeah. With not a bit of body armour in sight. Like the skills and confidence
Rhona: I know.
Claire: And the power up the climbs like amazing.
Rhona: It's insane. I know,
Claire: but it's actually probably worth mentioning then that I do love the downhill, and that's because that's the one discipline.
Where everyone's doing the same.
Rhona: Yes, it's true. It's exactly the same. It's actually super true and, and I also really, really love that. I don't as much love how many less women we get to see, but I do, I also agree that it is really cool in sports where they get to do the same. I think my background is running and running in general you just all do the same. Yeah. And so I really, yeah, that's the, any sport where that's the case, that kind of makes sense to me.
Claire: I mean, was it Alison Jackson? Um, did she come from triathlon and then she, I think she was originally a runner and then she was aghast. Yeah. Then she was like, oh, there's a sport, but where the women do less than the men consistently.
Rhona: Like what?
Claire: And I think if you really enjoy cycling, then you kind of forget that in other sports. It doesn't happen as much. A marathon is a marathon.
Rhona: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's a set distance.Yeah, it is. The mountain biking does well, and it's kind of funny actually how the mountain biking does well for the coverage, but yet I'd say at grassroots and lower level, it's still harder to get women to believe that they can do it.
Claire: Yeah. I think it's, people just don't talk about the fun of it enough maybe. I think in mountain biking, a lot of people want to posture and puff their chest out a bit and be like, oh, I've done this thing and it's really, really hard and it's really important, you know, it's hard.
And that I managed to conquer it. But if you wanna get people to give it a go, you've gotta talk about how fun it was to try. Yeah. And exciting. And it's okay if you can't do it first time. And I think that gets lost a bit, which then probably. Getting more women to participate in cross country a bit harder.
Rhona: It seems like you're drawn to things more for passion than for pain at least. Definitely. Yeah. Did that influence you getting into the art world?
Claire: Yeah, I think I just knew I loved it. I was creative at school and was excited to make things. So yeah. That, that kind of is passion based. I didn't want to expect, pay all that money and give up three years of my life to do something that wasn't exciting to me.
Rhona: Yeah. Well that was very smart because I think a lot of people do that.
Yeah, that makes sense. And where does that creative side, well obviously we now know it's taken you into marketing, it's taken you into making amazing content for all of your side projects, but how did that, did you discover your path through this creative world doing, going from art into marketing?
Claire: Um, I think it's just natural.
So when I graduated from uni, I worked for one of my tutors managing his commercial art gallery and then a public commissioning organisation. But as part of that, it was getting the website set up. Writing press releases, making sure people were coming to openings, getting volunteers for projects, writing, funding applications and all of that.
I didn't realise it at the time, but that was marketing. Yeah. And I was good at it. And I'd also go into the uni and give talks to the students about how to present their portfolios. And I thought I was just really good at putting together a portfolio, but that was marketing as well, and I was teaching 'em how to market themselves.
So when austerity hit and project dried up, uh, looking at the skills I had, it was marketing. Which then made it, once I'd identified that it made it easier to then look for those jobs
Rhona: and was, I mean, I kind of imagined that marketing is a pretty brutal business. A lot of hard work, a lot of long hours sometimes potentially to get things to people.
I actually don't really know what the job looks like. This kind of just what is in my head. Tell tell me what it looked like when you did, was there a bit where you had to kinda prove your worth or work your way up? Is that how it works?
Claire: Yeah, I think it's interesting because for me, there weren't really marketing degrees.
Whereas now it would be very normal for someone to apply for a role and, and have a qualification in it. So it's very much learning on the go and my skillset naturally lent itself to it. , My first job, gave me loads of opportunities to try lots of different things because it was working for a company called Beyond the Bean, and they export to 50 countries all over the world.
So I got a chance to work with partners in different markets to understand about the nuances of, marketing globally, but we also had a really full events calendar. So I was getting used to working on big scale exhibitions, and doing that internationally as well. But then also looking at brand refreshes, tone of voice imagery, and digital.
So, you know, how do we present ourselves on social media? Who do we talk to? Are we building a community? Are we advertising? And everything changes so quickly that I think learning new tools just, or just learning in general, excites me. So that helped with staying on top of it. And being able to progress in the industry.
I guess
Rhona: what an amazing skill set to have that just set you up for, you could just do anything now.
Claire: Oh, Hmm. It's good that you think that.
Rhona: So far today we've found out that I have more confidence in, so I think you're doing more amazingly than you do most things
Claire: and Yeah.
Yeah. And we've kind of spoken about how we think that's a trait amongst women anyway. Yeah, I know. Yeah.
Rhona: Yeah. Again, don't know if that's because we all told we're not as good or not, we weren't given as many opportunities in some ways or where that comes from. I have no idea. I try to think back to the.
You know, when you're a kid, is there something specific that makes us think that may, that we aren't as good or, you know, that really silly thing that women do all the time is apologise. Just for existing, for being in a space. Yeah. Where did that come from?
Claire: Yeah. When the default word to come out is, sorry.
Yeah. When it should be. Excuse me. Or thank you, but its sorry
Rhona: Or you should just be glad I'm here.
Claire: Yeah.
Rhona: Lucky you. I would definitely judge somebody if they said that, but I would also respect them massively.
Claire: Oh totally. Sorry Does get banded about quite a lot.
Rhona: Yeah.
And I really don't know where it came from. I dunno at what point in life I transitioned to starting to introduce myself with an apology.
Claire: Mm mm Yeah. It is a weird one, isn't it? Because you don't really do it as kids.
Rhona: No, I don't. I don't see little girls ever doing that. Definitely not. Um, I've even found just the.
Trying to start this podcast, reach out to people, ask them, I immediately want to say, apologise for, inconveniencing them for, and I'm like, what, what am I doing? If, if this is a worthwhile thing to make, then I just shouldn't have to say sorry for that.
Claire: Yeah, totally. And you're providing an opportunity for people to talk about something they care about.
Mm. And a platform to broadcast themselves, you know, you're giving people an opportunity that definitely shouldn't start over. Sorry.
Rhona: So you are building spaces for women and other, other types of people, but a lot of your passion is about women, isn't it? That where they don't have to say, sorry, where they should be there, they're supposed to be there.
Um, how do you message that? How, and, and, and how do you make it the, the buzzword inclusive?
Claire: I make it inclusive of…… I think it's the important thing. So when you see a ride that's described as this is inclusive that always , kind of gets my back up a little bit, I guess, because it's inclusive of who.
Whereas I think a lot of the time those people are talking about it's inclusive of all genders or, you know, it's inclusive of people who want to ride slow or it's inclusive of people who want to ride off road only. So you can't just be inclusive, like you need to define what you're being inclusive of.
And if you don't, then the word inclusive gets people more and more start to associate it with, I suppose like more left wing kind of ideals and things. But that isn't what that word means. It's a precursor to you saying defining those audiences. Mm-hmm. So I think that's really important is like you can't just say a ride is inclusive, it is inclusive of…..…
But people are generally a bit scared of language or of getting it wrong or of upsetting someone. And I've gotten it wrong and I have upset people. Um, but I've tried Yes. And I think that's better than not trying. Yeah. And then have a conversation and learn from it. Mm-hmm. I think is the best way to go about it.
Yeah. And the way I do that with Allterre Adventures is I think carefully about the images I'm putting out. Do they, do they show the people that I want to be on that ride? what are those people wearing and what bikes are they riding and what setting are they in? I think that's all important.
Then language is important, so I try to keep it friendly in tone. Um. Quite chatty, always inviting people to ask questions, but then also to be really clear on a description. So, um, if it's ride and grind, which is a morning coffee meetup, then you know the ride is self-directed. You ride there we are just having coffee together. Yeah. But then if it's a ride for Allterre rides, um, I'm really prescriptive, you have to have a device with the route loaded on it.
Rhona: Okay.
Claire: Um, and that is because for the majority of the rides, I'm not leading. Yeah. Okay. It's just a group who are sharing a route, so you need to be able to navigate the route.
Yeah. And then people ride at their own pace. Yes. So the groups normally self-select. I call them, you can ride party pace or pacey party.
Rhona: Pacey party.
Claire: Yeah. Because I don't think fast should be a dirty word, like Yeah, no. For me, like the, the rides aren't default slow. And that's another thing that bothers me.
Rhona: Yeah. Because this gets really complicated.
Claire: You can totally have a friendly ride that is 30 kilometers per hour. Mm-hmm. Inclusive of,
Rhona: but when you go there, it won't be 19 men and one woman and the men will talk only about how the balls are getting squished on the bike and the one woman feels alienated.
Claire: Yeah. So you've just gotta define who it's for.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: Yeah. And then I think the other thing is setting the tone when people arrive to a ride as well. So even though I'm not leading. And the ride will always have a briefing at the beginning, which I'll give. Mm-hmm. And that'll remind people that I definitely want them to take pictures and videos and share them on social media and tag Allterre adventures.
Because they'll be showing other people Yes. Who look like them, that they're welcome on that ride. Yes. So reminding people that actually they are inspirational. Yeah. And it's okay for them to do that.
Rhona: Yeah. And they're achievable, inspirational as well. That's the thing, that's what makes 'em inspirational, is people can, can be them.
Yeah. And that's what's really great about it. That's why they're so useful to show the rest of the world because other people will see them and say, I'm like you. I can do this.
Claire: Yeah. Anything else you say, just making sure that you're mimicking that tone that you've put out and everything beforehand.
And make people feel welcome. And then remind people. What the tone of the ride is, that they can go fast if they want to, for those people to set off first maybe so they're not trying to rust their way through. Where we'll all see each other again at the end. And yeah, there's always a coming together again at the end at a pub or something nice.
So that those people who haven't ridden together still have the opportunity to socialise but also share the different experiences of the ride.
Rhona: I like that. 'cause there's not like a clear split between it then you, you know, everybody is still part of the same thing.
I think all of this is super relevant to the Rest Days Community because I think the people who this podcast is for, I think the people who struggle to look after themselves the most are often these people who, are working away. Maybe they're caring for their parent and they've also got a small child and they work, but they're struggling to find the time to do something like this. Plus taking the leap to starting a new activity that you don't already do in making that space for yourself. Is so, is intimidating if we are not making the space look welcoming.
And I think you have, we have to just take down some of the barriers for people that we're not gonna get, everybody out enjoying themselves and looking after themselves, if we just make it so difficult for them.
Claire: Yeah, totally. And I think it's definitely, more prevalent in mountain biking maybe, because that's such a broad church of riding.
If I'm riding my hard tail on a fire road, that's still mountain biking. But also if someone's doing a whip over a road gap, that is also mountain biking. But the latter is the one that we commonly see the image of, which then makes it an intimidating space for people to join.
I think people worry that if we don't put that image out there, then we'll alien. All those people. And it's like, well, you know, you, they're gonna go into it anyway.
Rhona: Yeah. Most of the time the people who they're worried about alienating in that circumstance Yeah. Are going out anyway.
Claire: And when, and it's not to say that those images need to be erased.
Rhona: No.
Claire: There's still a place for them. And it is great to see aspirational imagery that gets you excited and hyped, and that's why we watch racing and things. Yeah. But just little signals to everyone else that they're kind of riding and people who look like them are also welcome and legitimate as well.
Rhona: Yeah. I a hundred percent buy into that. I think it's weird how, it just is more of a problem in, in cycling again this imagery thing. I, I don't think in other sports it's as bad where there is only the top insane, extreme end. Um, it. Even just, if I imagine runners, I see runners every day. Just people jogging down the street.
Rhona: And so therefore I will, I would never feel scared to say I run, you know? Yeah. Although I definitely plod, but you know, I would say I'm a runner. And I'm happy with that. But i've literally been on a three month trip around Europe only mountain biking.
And I would still feel nervous in certain groups to say that I mountain bike, which is hilarious. That's wild, isn't it? I know.
Claire: I dunno why, because your trip looked immense as well.
Rhona: It was. It was very nice. Yeah. That was my proper rest day. A three month rest day.
Claire: But maybe you'll have that change in perspective as well when you go home or ride home trails.
And the way you view them will be different now as well.
Rhona: That's my hope. Yeah. That's my hope.
Claire: But it's funny. I know what you mean. saying I'm a runner feels different to saying I'm a mountain biker. Even when you've got a helmet with a visor, which isn't necessary obviously, but like, and you're holding a mountain bike and people are still like, but I think that's, that also happens with saying you're a cyclist.
Mm-hmm. It's true. People, people do struggle with that. I think, is it in Dutch, isn't there two different words for it? It is there, yeah. So there's like, sports cycling has one word and then utility cycling has another word. And I wonder if there were different definitions, but then I just don't, I just, then also segregating things isn't, it's like how many different words do you have for mountain biking?
Yeah. And then does it make people feel like they can't be more than one of them? Oh yeah.
Rhona: That would get very complicated, very quickly. Okay. We've talked about the fact that you came into cycling relatively late in life, only in the last few years.
Before that, what, what were you doing? Where, was there an an outlet for physical movement in your life?
Claire: Yeah, I mean, for most of my life, no. And then when I was 30, I discovered roller derby and just fell in love with that. And that started six, yeah, five, six years of playing roller derby, coaching it, which also got me into ramp skating.
Um, so I did a lot of big ramps and things as well and got the opportunity to travel around Europe and do coaching and clinics and things, which was so much fun. Um, although actually I think my highlight was. Teaching a group of three girls who, I think the oldest was 13. The youngest was eight. Um, they came up for a private session and teaching them to drop in on roller skates.
Wow. It was pretty amazing.
Rhona: This is so cool. Okay. The first question is, how, how did you get, it's quite niche sport? Kind of like some parts of cycling, like going, like how you just started gravel riding. How did you just start these things?
Claire: Someone was playing it. We met and she was like, I think you'd love this. And I went and watched her play a game.
So I saw someone get their nose broken and someone else broke an ankle. Oh my God. And then you still wanted to do it, which isn't normal. That's not like your average game. But yeah, I was just like, let me at it. Really, I wanna to do that. Um, but I couldn't roller skate, so I had to learn to roller skate first.
So that didn't stop you from someone? Holding my hand and dragging me very slowly across a sports hall, um, was my first session.
Rhona: Okay. There's so many things about this that I'm interested in. So you say you weren't a very active person. Yet you saw this sport where people were getting bones broken and you couldn't even skate, and then you decided to start it.
Why? How?
Claire: I think it was just, I'll give it a go 'cause it looks fun. Roller derby is a bit renowned. It is. It's like a subculture as well. It really appeals to people who aren't sporty. You get people from all walks of life. All different shapes and sizes. You can still be great at it.
And it has, from the beginning been quite gender inclusive as well. Okay. yeah. Just like the look and the vibe of it was appealing, not just this sport element, but as I progressed, the sport element and the strategy and getting better and better and better became the motivation.
Rhona: That wasn't the answer I knew you were gonna give, but it was definitely the answer I was hoping for because that you, you know, everything we've talked about you, I just can't see how you would've gone from being a nons sporty person to going traveling Europe and coaching people in a sport without being drawn somehow.
And the thing that drew you was you, you, you felt like you could be part of that community. Yeah. You, you felt like you would fit in there.
And, and that's everything we've been saying, isn't it? We need to do, everybody needs to have that space that they feel comfortable where they can go and they can feel good about themselves and have a healthy community encouraging them to have healthy behaviours and it has to be fun.
Claire: Yeah, it has, it has to be fun. If there's no joy in it, then why are you doing it?
Rhona: Yeah. 'cause then it is just the, the pain and all these other silly things that have become associated with sport, but actually don't need to have anything to do with it.
Claire: Yeah. I think if you start describing things that you're thinking about doing, in terms of sport or cycling as I should, that's a really slippery slope.
Yeah. Once you get down the, I should then it's like external forces and things you've seen and this idea of you following a prescribed pathway where it doesn't excite you and then it becomes rubbish.
Rhona: I've been down that slope. It didn't end well.
Claire: Yeah. And then you need a massive reset and to find your joy again.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: But I think I describe cycling and roller Darby in a really similar way in that I'm having so much fun and I accidentally got fit.
Rhona: My background and my passion is getting everybody healthy mentally and physically. And I think the outdoors and adventure is a great way to do that.
I call it rest days because I think we all can do it in a fun way. I don't want to call it, uh, you know, the training day. I want to call it rest days because it can be a fun, relaxing thing to do. And that's the whole concept behind it. I think that's exactly what you are saying and it's really, yeah.
So you've left a job. Yeah. We're back up to now what, what's gonna happen now and how are you gonna find balance?
Claire: Yeah, balance is my word for the year. It's a work in progress, but it's okay. 'cause it will always be. Yeah. But I think a few things have really guided that decision. And that is thinking about how I want to live my life.
So I, I'm heading towards my 40th birthday and I think when you think about retirement age, that actually I've still got shed loads of work ahead of me
Rhona: a long time. Yeah. They won't let you retire before you're about 85 for sure.
Claire: So, you know, I am not even halfway done, but I want that to be a, a life that I'm enjoying more. And I put so much heart and soul into some of the other things I was doing outside of my office job that I wanted to do them better. And actually they'd like excite me so much more. So kind of, I wanna create a space where there's more room for events, guiding, coaching and tutoring, training other people to be guides.
Like, whoa. The impact of that is so cool.
Rhona: Yeah. I'm waiting for you to be able to do level three so I can come and get mine,
Claire: it might have to wait a little while, level two this year. Can't recommend level three enough. It was my favourite. But then also to use the skills that I already have.
So make sure that I'm still doing marketing work. But thinking about that in terms of community and community building as well. Yes. And always trying to stay on the pulse. Digital marketing is shifting and actually a lot of the ways that we've traditionally done stuff is changing.
That you can't just rely on a press release to get people excited about product launches and things. Now it's like, actually how are you gonna take that news to people where they are and how are you gonna , leverage your community and grow it? These are all things. That I think I do quite well, but also where, um, it's intersecting with my job as marketing as well.
Rhona: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You're, you're, you do an amazing job of the, what you put out to the world in all your projects. It's, gives all of the other people out there, including myself, running community projects lost to live up to.
Claire: Well, you know, Canva is a wonderful thing.
Rhona: Yeah. I'm learning.
Claire: Yeah. You don't need to know how to use design software well anymore. Yeah, just use Canva. I used to use Photoshop Illustrator for everything, but it's just too good. There's no point now.
Rhona: I mean, one day even scarily, maybe AI will be doing some of this stuff, but hopefully it won't get as interesting and creative as humans for a while.
Claire: I've been having loads of conversations with people about AI at the moment as well. 'cause even though the idea of community is very real world. And then we've got the rise of AI and companies are wanting to use it all the time, and it's changing the way we interact. But also I think that is a space where my hope for the future is that AI takes care of all this stuff.
But the one thing AI can't do is be human.
Rhona: Yeah.
Claire: And hopefully we start to shape a future where actually our job or our jobs become being more human.
Rhona: Well love that. And that
Claire: compliments each other.
Rhona: What positive outlook on AI. So they, they take away all the crap that we don't, that wastes our time and we can just interact with each other more.
Claire: Mm-hmm. And you're seeing in the rise of like. Wellbeing and the things that we are putting more importance on in terms of time. And also it's, you know, it's my off-road cycling. It's future proof, because it's gonna be connecting with people in the great outdoors. And so there's plenty of room for AI to come in and there's obviously huge amount of problems with it as well.
But I think for me, looking at how that just gives us room to amplify and reconnect with the things that make us human Yeah. Is the way I'm, or the way I'll be heading anyway.
Rhona: I love that. I feel that's a lovely place potentially to leave it because we've gone through your life story and we've finished on what's gonna happen in the future.
Thank you Claire, because everything you've said has been so wonderfully put and I think you've made some really important points and you've made some things really clear. I like that your story wiggles around a little bit. And you aren't somebody who's done cycling, done exercise, done sport, done some really intense career you're whole life and that's been all one thing. You've done so many different things. You've had so many interesting things to say and I really appreciate that. I really hope that you do find some balance In what's coming up. Maybe we'll check in in the future and find out
About how that journey goes
Claire: We could both have a check in 'cause you're about to start your job after. That's true. A long rest. So It's true. It's true. We can hold each other accountable to our balance.
Rhona: Yeah, that's a good idea. I think the only way I ever manage it is if somebody is checking in on me.