Lauren Munro-Bennett Transcript
Rhona: Welcome back to the Rest Days Community Podcast. In this episode, we speak to Lauren Munro Bennett, who is based in the Lake District, where she works as a coach and a guide. She works with a huge range of people, from those trying swimming for the very first time, to those targeting results in ultra-running.
Lauren shares her personal journey through sport and life. She talks about the meandering path that took her to finding life balance, but also taught her some tough lessons along the way. So much of what Lauren talks about resonated with me personally and reflected many of my own experiences. I often get messages from listeners asking me to share more of my own rest day stories, and you'll see some insights into these in this episode, This is an episode which explores a really wholesome approach to doing hard things, and I hope you enjoy what she has to say, 'cause I really did
hi Lauren, welcome to the Rest Days Community podcast. I'm really excited to chat to you all things outdoors, looking after yourself, looking after other people. I think you are gonna have lots of really interesting things to say 'cause you work in a really interesting sphere in the outdoors, but also your personal life really overlaps with that.
So, it's gonna be really interesting to hear about how you manage that. So yeah, thank you for being here.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Hi. Yes. I'm really excited to be on this podcast when you reached out I was super excited, um, to chat with you. So yeah, thank you so much for having me.
Rhona: So Lauren, when did you first get introduced to the outdoors? Has it always been in your life?
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah, so I. I did was really lucky in that I grew up in Grizedale, which is a little like forest in, Cumbria. I was surrounded by the outdoors when I grew up and I had the yeah, privilege of getting introduced to fell running when I was about 10, which is really cool. Um, and a, yeah, really fun sport, I feel like my actual connection to nature and being outdoors didn't really develop until year early twenties. So even though I was spending loads of time outside, a lot of my stuff was kind of from a competitive angle, and so I was kind of like almost, not exploiting nature, but I guess kind of using it in a more competitive sense.
Whereas more recently of the last 10 years, I've really. Reevaluated how I'm in nature and it's much more from a, um, yeah, feeling like I'm enjoying nature and being with it rather than I'm using it to, to perform or achieve something. So it's been quite an interesting shift from when I was younger to now.
Rhona: That's really interesting, isn't it? Because if you're doing a competitive sport, sometimes it almost stops mattering where you're doing it. You could have been running inside on a track, or you could have been running in beautiful mountains. If you're really just focused on the results and the racing, you actually forget where you are doing it
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): When I look of my younger years, I spent a lot of time outside. But yeah, like you said, my focus wasn't on the fact that I was in this beautiful area. It was on like. I need to run as hard as I can or I need to perform and achieve and felt like that pressure to do that for, for myself in the environment that I was in.
And then now I've just realised, no, I get so much and I still enjoy racing, but, it's just totally different relationship. And I feel like the most important thing for me now is kind of the environment that I'm in and, and what it gives me rather than like, let's just keep pushing. Um, just to, to feel like I need to prove something.
So, yeah. It's really
Rhona: I feel like there's a very rest day story there from how you went from being so kind of solely. Competition focused to becoming somebody who actually saw the environment they were in and enjoyed the slower pace. How did that transition come about?
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Um, yeah, it was a long, wiggly, uh, transition. Um, think. Yeah, like kind of just with that background of growing up in kind, kind of more competitive being, being kind of, you know, finding myself in that space much more to then having a really tough time kind of in my mid, I can't, it was. In my mid, just after uni, kind of mid twenties, um, really struggled with mental health.
Um, so I had some up and down periods and I think it really made me like, reevaluate kind of what I needed to feel happy in myself and feel healthy. And then actually within that I also got, um, in a ADHD diagnosis, which explained a lot, but I feel like. It from, from all of that really tough times came with it like, okay, how do I actually, how do I live my life?
So I look after myself and so. I make it so it works for me and not worry about others' perceptions of what I should do and, and how I am in the world kind of, it really meant that I had to look at these things head on rather than kind of just bumble through life and you kind of just get, get by, if that makes sense. So I think that really meant that I was like, okay, I really want a job that, um, I am. Using the skills that I feel like I enjoy doing and it's, and I'm passionate about. Um, so that kind of developed into the stuff that I do now. Um, same with my sporting stuff. Like don't wanna just. Be competing to feel like I need to, to, to achieve something.
I really want to think about how I'm spending my time in the outdoors. And it shouldn't just be that constant race of having to push yourself all the time. Um, yeah. And then thinking about other things that I enjoy doing, that I didn't let myself do when I was younger.
Fun little creative things that don't really, don't really have an end thing, but it's so important just to do have the process of doing that. So yeah, that was kind of the. I guess that light transition shift.
Rhona: There's so much there. Wow. I wanna ask about all of those things. It's very easy, I think when you're competitive with sport for the joy to go from it. Because you're putting so much pressure on yourself and it's become about the next thing, do more, do better, um.
Did, did your relationship with Fell running, did it get swayed too far that way? You know, did you start to lose some of the joy of it?
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): It's really interesting and I always, I don't know, at what point did it become not joyful or, or not healthy? And I think I actually got into, so when I went to uni, I then did a bit of triathlon. So got into triathlon stuff and I think that was when I was in a new environment. was definitely some precursor things going on beforehand, like, um. When I was doing Fell running, I got picked for a junior England international team, like a little local, uh, home internationals.
So it's only like England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland. And, and I remember getting picked for that, but, but the first time I did, I didn't feel like I was good enough 'cause, and I actually cried the first time I got selected because. I think someone else had got come ahead of me, but they were too young to enter.
And then there was this, there was this belief for me that, I didn't feel good enough. And, and even though I got this vest and everyone on the outside was like, you know, you are, you're competing for your country., How incredible is that? Um, but I just, there was this constant feeling that I, I still didn't feel good enough.
And then that was, so, that was always reinforced in these other environments, you know? And that was always there. So I think then when I went to uni. To make myself feel better. was like, well, I need to, I need to prove myself, I need to keep pushing. I need to work hard.
And the joy, it wasn't, it was from this like Yeah, like you said, there wasn't joy. It was like a hap I had do it otherwise, what would, what would I be? So is that it was like fear driven rather than joy driven. Um. Then it only, it really, I kind of, I thought I got handle of it by like my final year, um, in triathlon at uni, and I was in a much better place.
But then, yeah, then really struggled when I left, when I left uni and of it really made me head on, look at, look at things and I think. Now. Yeah. I, I view it from a joyful place and I really, you know, there's still these things that come up like, oh, the thoughts and, and beliefs, but I'm so much more aware of them and I'm like, no, like I can't, you can't be driven by fear 'cause it's not sustainable.
You make bad decisions around your training. You don't, it's, it's not you, you, you're constantly putting everyone in competition with you and it's just not, it's not a fun place to be mentally, so. it took a long, it took a long journey and I think different parts of that, of me growing up. Um, I was faced it in different ways, but I really feel like at uni, yeah, very fear driven, really bad behaviours going on with that and then really had to, because I was so unwell, I just had to face what was going on, if that makes sense. Um, yeah.
Rhona: Makes a lot of sense. So I guess for context, I did a very similar thing, uh, and it all, it, and, and for me, I think going to uni was the time where it could become out of control. Uh, well, I felt like I was controlling everything very, you know, tightly. Um, and everything had to be done exactly as I thought it needed to be, but it was out of control.
Um, and I think that's really common, that step from, I think when you're at home there's a lot of restrictions, you know. There's, you know, you can only maybe get places, but with the help of your parents or you might not have as good transport. It's not as easy. You know, when you go to uni, suddenly everything's there.
There's the gym's right there, and you can go to it 24 7. And there's people, you know, there's clubs on every night. You could do three activities a day if you wanted to, and there's people to do it with. Um, and there are people doing crazy amounts of stuff as well. You want, you know, you are not the only one.
So if you've got that compare with each other kind of brain, then. It's, it can be a really risky environment, I think, and that's a, a really common age, I think, sadly, for this to happen. Over training and undereating at that age and that point I think are really common. Um, and I think it's interesting how you mentioned that you were putting so much pressure on yourself when you did actually get selected for something that you didn't.
You actually just sounded like it was a horrible experience almost 'cause you were so upset and you was um, and I definitely resonate with that and I think a lot of people who've been athletes as juniors would resonate with that. And I think, you know, I think there used to almost be this kind of idea that people who were doing that maybe they cried because of their result or they were upset at race, maybe they couldn't hack it.
Um, and I think that view made the whole thing kinda worse. 'cause then the person who's in that scenario is upset is like feeling. Even more pressure, more upset. But actually I think now we really need to change that perspective and be, those juniors need to be taken aside and going, whoa, take a step back.
This is not the end of the world. It's gonna be okay.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): A hundred percent. Like, you know, you know, from the uni thing, like you said, kind of you're at that age, you're in that environment where it's all, it's kind of positively reinforced those behaviours about doing more and, and achieving and , everyone's doing so much and it's kind of that all those types of, I guess, perfectionist type people, things can really come to light and it, it, it's kind of fed in that environment.
And then also in that junior space, I totally agree, like we. There's not that, or, and maybe, maybe there is, maybe it's improving. I don't know. But think that support from the more psychological space around like, you know, is somebody a bit more sensitive to these things and do they need some extra support around, around working through their beliefs?
Because at the end of the day. have such a long time in sport and whatever you, however you want to take that forward, looking at the bigger picture is so important, but you can get so caught up in it when you are younger, especially if you don't have these healthier frameworks to look to. And it can really have a big, yeah, a big impact on you if, if you don't have that person to like. That system support network to kind of unpack what's going on for you. Um, so yeah, that's, I guess that's probably how I ended up in my coaching and, and guiding stuff because that's kind of, yeah, wanting to create that space for people like now that maybe I didn't have when I was younger. Um, yeah.
Rhona: That is really interesting actually. I think we might have had. Relatively similar journeys in, in our own unique ways. Um, and I guess I didn't really know that that's what I was gonna find out talking to you, but it's quite nice to, you know, to hear that. Um, but I'm sorry that that is the journey that you took and I think, um, I think we are messing up and missing a point as a, as a country, as like a culture where that we want people to stay active their whole lives.
And we want, you know, if we literally, if we just. Spoil it, put it down to money even, you know, if we want the NHS to survive, if we want to spend less money on healthcare and we want to grow an economy, which are not things that I actually really am focused on, but if we want the people who are in power to care, that's what we can sell them.
Then actually, yeah, that's what really matters. We should be making, you know, young, we shouldn't be getting young people focused in on one sport and they have to do better. You know, if they don't make the cut, they're not good enough. 'cause that's how we just burn people out and get dropouts and I'm so glad you are still enjoying the outdoors and you are getting out and being active, but a lot of people, they go through what kind of you described and then they never pick it up again and it just puts you off for life.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah, a hundred percent. I'm pretty sure, I can't remember if it's Sweden or Norway, but there's some, there's another country that doesn't have competitive junior sports in terms of like that, you know, they don't do nationals, they don't do these, these massive events that we, that we have. Um. Because the research shows that if you are a high performing junior, there's a way higher chance to drop out as a senior. There's not that longevity, right? So yeah, we're doing something wrong. Totally agree. And, and we wanna foster that long-term thing rather than like, there's so much pressure on young people to, to do these things.
And actually if we just harness that intrinsic motivation of like. Do I enjoy doing this thing and can I do lots of different fun sports? Those are the people that are gonna continue, um, in the future and have just such a more healthy relationship with, um, with sport and, and getting out. Yeah.
Rhona: No, I think in, in our kind of, probably at this point where we were both teenagers, people were really focused on, I guess they were worried that if they didn't push you, then the people who could make it, who would make it to the top wouldn't. But I, I don't agree with that anyway. 'cause I think that. If either you are motivated enough to put in all the years and you're gonna drive yourself to the, to a gold medal at the Olympics or whatever it is, or world champs, you know, or you don't have that self-drive, in which case doesn't matter how many coaches push you, you are not gonna get there.
So it it is.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah. That's so interesting. I've not thought about it like that. Yeah, that's so true.
Rhona: Yeah, I think maybe in sense, I don't think you actually have to push, like I think the people who wanna push themselves will come through anyway, and everybody else, we should just be saying, you know? Yes, if you love it and you enjoy it, you know, push yourself. And if you don't, then just do a bunch of different stuff and then, and be here because it's great fun.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Hundred percent. Yeah.
Rhona: Yeah, it's very interesting how kind of a lot of this, uh, I think probably things are changing, but you know, that's why it's so important that people, you know, that you are now get doing coaching and guiding, and I bet the people that you work with, you're giving them a very different message. I.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I feel like my, I was trying to think about, well, when I was setting up my, my coaching guiding stuff like. What, what I kind of offer. And I think it's kind of my, think because of my experiences, just like creating a space where people feel supported and open to trying things and kind of just, yeah, creating that space to then, get the best out of people.
And that's really, yeah, that's really important. Um, rather than like that more hard, hard approach. Um, I'm very
Rhona: Yeah. And I bet people actually achieve amazing stuff under that approach. That's the thing, you know? And I think there, I'm not saying everybody should just doddle around. I think there's something great in finding your boundaries and pushing yourself. It's just doing it like in a healthy and sustainable way.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Totally agreed. I still race and I still have goals, but it's really looking at. What's the reason behind, I want to do these things and really think about the intention for it rather than,, having to perform because I feel like that's the fear rather than that.
Yeah. The joy coming from it.
Rhona: Yeah. I love that. I think really asking why you're doing it. 'cause if the answer is because somebody else did it or because you feel like you should or because somebody said you should, then that's, you probably shouldn't do it.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah, totally.
Rhona: Yeah. That's amazing. So tell me a bit about what kind of, who do you coach now? Is it a huge variety of people or what kind of stuff do you do?
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): So, yeah, brain likes variety, so kind of, it's, it's probably funny to explain it, but I have a few different things that I do. So I have coaching and guiding, so I do. Open water swim coaching and get people feeling confident in, in the water, whether that's trying open water swimming for the first time, or whether that's, you know, they want to swim across Coniston, for example. Um, kind of a total mixture of things. Um. As well working with individuals. We, there's a cool project we're doing right now where we are, it's called the Outside Two Project, and it's a, a measured study by university in Sussex and for individuals with anxiety and depression, and we've got eight week block with them where they. I go swimming once a week and they're measuring like if that's gonna help their mental health benefits, which is really exciting. Um, so that's like a proper measured, like nationwide study. It's happening all across the country. And then so the swim coaching and guiding, and then I have a, I do a little bit of like run guiding in the hills and, and guided walks and things. work with some cool people there. And then my run coaching is under missing link coaching, so a run coach under them, which is really fun. So work with, again, like people wanting to do their first kind of trail event all the way to someone who's wanting to, to achieve like a, a podium on an ultra or something like that. Um, what else? Oh, and as, yeah, nature connection's quite important within, within my,, work. And that kind of gets fed throughout, throughout all the things that I do. And then I also do a little bit of anti-racist facilitating, and I think that's, oh, no, and then it's final thing. I don't want it to be a list, sorry.
But, uh, I, I work for Renee McGregor, um, as a performance coach. So I then, that's kind of the main thing of probably how I've ended up from my teenage years and what I, what I experienced, um, I, I did a master's in, in exec coaching and I now work with individuals who have dysfunctional relationship with food and or exercise. work alongside of a dietician and kind of really help them understand their behaviours and, and work through kind of some of the beliefs that they have, um, and try to build that self-awareness. So they're a healthier athlete, they're a healthier person, and they can like be in that sport for, for longer.
So it, it, it sounds like. Loads of random things, but kind of I feel like it's all underpinned by Yeah. That kind of people coaching, guiding and, and, and connecting with nature in some form.
Rhona: That all sounds amazing. Um, yeah. Wow. Just, wow, that's so, so cool. Um, I've got so many questions about all those different things, but I guess the main one is how do you, how do you do all of that and actually manage to do them all sustainably, you know, does one ever sort of start to eat? F get in the way of all the others or 'cause that can be quite difficult when you got all these different plates to spin.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I, I really, I try to think about how my brain works and like, is this, why does this work for me? But I think, I went fully self-employed last year, start of 2025, and then that was a real learning curve. So I've been doing it for five years, but that was the where I fully stepped out into like, okay, I am gonna fully commit and, and stop my other part-time role and go, go all in. Um. And I really felt like I was probably gonna burn out by the end of last year because I was like, I need to keep doing everything so I can, you know, pay my bills and, and, and can't say no to opportunities. And that's kind of my knee jerk, you know, saying yes to things which I've, which I recognize in, in myself.
So then. I was fortunate enough to have some time out in January. We went to New Zealand and just had some time in the mountains, which was incredible. And then I realised, I can't burn out because then I won't be the best coach I can be. I won't be yeah, I won't be the best I can be, and it's not sustainable.
So I now. sure in my diary I have a, I have a hard copy diary 'cause I can't do it online. I still have that like pen and paper and colour coded. So I block out days off and I literally, I, I, I safeguard those, they're sacred so I make sure I have days off and I, you know, and I can't and I try not to, well, I don't, I really don't say yes to work things on those days. And then it kind of the actual, within that. My working week looks different every week, but there's some, it's kind of like structured flexibility or flexible structure in that there's some things that are kind of, every week I have some things going on, and then other things get fit around it. So it kind of, I think my brain loves that.
So I've got some structure, but then I have that variety as well. And, but yeah, you know, capacity wise, I really con, I have a, like a list here that I look at and, 'cause otherwise if I don't see it, my brain forgets about it. Um. And I, and I really just check in on like what things have I said yes to, what projects are coming up.
Like in the summer I'll have more swims going on. in the winter I'll have some of the more facilitating things going on. So it's kind of. It's kind of that ebb and flow, but, but I'm also like, I, my health is the most important thing to make sure I can do all of these things. So I don't have set days to do things, but that might happen in the future where I'm like, okay, one day I'll do this thing.
But at the moment it's kind of, I kind of, working. I don't know how, but it's working. Yeah.
Rhona: I, I think that was a pretty perfect answer to be honest, because it's not, you can never just have it set. It can never just, there's not just one perfect system. But I think, I love that you are setting aside really strict time where this is your time and you actually rest. Those are your rest days.
Right. Um, and that's exactly, it is amazing that. You did that only one year into being self-employed and being fully managing. 'cause I think I've spoken to people and I know people who would be five years in would've would have burned out and then they go back to that place.
So I think that's so cool that you realise that and actually put that in place. Um, that's really nice. Kind of sounds like as well, you're saying that everything has to be written down. 'cause I was wondering. The thing that I find hard in in my life or, and I think lots of brain types find this hard, is that if, you know, sometimes just turning up to work at 9:00 AM and being given work till five and then you go home is easy.
You don't have to remember anything. You don't have to sort stuff out. You don't have to turn up places. So yeah, you obviously have a really dialled in system for making sure that everything actually happens 'cause you're responsible for making sure it does.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah. And I really, I think because, because I've, I've had the struggles and I've really looked at what I enjoy doing. It's meant that. I love my job and I love, I literally love what I do. So then that makes it really easy for when all the other logistical bits that, that don't suit my brain, but I've found systems to help that. It makes that easier to do because I lo I love my work. So it's kind of like, I need to do that email make that session with that person or whatever, . But yeah, if I don't write it down. It's, it's, it's not gonna happen, or
Rhona: It's never happening. Yeah.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): It's gone. Um, so yeah, that's, uh, that's definitely a thing.
And I think if I just, you know, turned up to work. I would then be so, and kind of got things given to me if I don't know why I'm doing something or if it doesn't ignite me, I am checked out and I am not there. And it's kind of like I get, so I get actually even let, I could just, ugh. It just, yeah. I'm like, no, I can't do it. Like obviously if I had to I would, but it's kind of like it doesn't, yeah. I think things when it, they excite me and when I feel like I'm really living by my values. and it alm I feel almost guilty saying that. 'cause I feel like, oh, it sounds so like. I guess, um, privileged, but like, I think 'cause I, 'cause I've, the experience I've had, I'm like, well, no, I know this means that I am well and it means that, it makes, it makes sure that I'm, I'm healthy and happy, so, so why would I not do it?
That's kind of where I'm at. Yeah.
Rhona: Yeah, and you shouldn't feel guilty because you have found something that you are passionate about and that you can enjoy doing. I, I get. I get that train of thought, I think lots of people would feel like that. But you know, I think that's, you're just obviously a very nice person and you think about the fact that maybe not everybody else gets that, but you, you clearly have put the work in to get to this place.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. I have to
Rhona: But it's hard to tell yourself that sometimes, isn't it? Oh, well that's, that's amazing. So. I think as well you kind of touched on it, but I think both ends of the spectrum for neurodiversity have a real risk of burnout. Um, just because of the way that your brain works and the way that, um, that means that you, you know, approach tasks, approach sports, approach work.
You know, it's really easy to get completely all in and over. And overdo it. Um, and I think that's something that we've kind of touched upon in some episodes of this podcast. And, and I wanted to talk a bit more about, before you got your diagnosis, were you wondering it.
Whether that might be the case, I guess is the first question. And the second question is, did having it allow you to be a bit kinder to yourself and then you could actually manage thing, you know, be like, oh, okay, I do need to take a break sometimes, 'cause I won't, you know.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I try to think about the order that it happened, but. I think I didn't definitely, when I was a teenager, when I was younger, I didn't understand. I would, I wasn't self-aware. I didn't understand how, how I worked, and I thought it was kind of, you know, anxiety was normal and I didn't realise that not everybody had the experiences that I had. then I actually had. My depression kind of came first, and then, and then I had some interesting Yeah. Ups and downs. And it feels like it at the time. Like, I remember when I got my diagnosis, it made so much sense and I was like, this makes so much sense, um, as to why, I behave in certain ways and why I, you know, didn't. very well. And then it, it of, for me, when I got, when I found out I had a ADHD, it was like, ah, that's why I was depressed because I couldn't look after myself properly. And that's why I, I went kind of in more high energy states because like I wasn't looking after myself. Um, but I can't remember.
You have a part of a question, but I feel like it didn't, I still had to do a lot of work to understand How my brain worked , it wasn't then as soon as I got the diagnosis, everything was sorted. 'cause I still had some struggles after that. And then it was only when I truly like looked at how does my brain work, what does it need?
I got professional support, had lots of therapy. Still have a bit of counselling and it's kind of like, okay, now I've really, looked inward. Um, now I understand how my brain works. Now I can. Make sure that, that, as much as I can, things within life, I can set things up to support me rather than it be against working against the tide. Um, but it still comes up with, you know, feeling guilty for my processing speed takes a bit longer and other things, things are still like, oh, why am I not like other people? I know everyone has their own things, but it is, it's, it's kind of these hidden things that people maybe don't realise. We have, you know, different ways of, of thinking and, and behaving and processing. That you wouldn't recognise if you didn't know. Um, but it just takes a lot more energy. And so . I really do have to factor in having more time off so I don't get burnt out because I know if I have a day of seeing lots of clients or being out in the hill, something like if I become overstimulated, then I need some downtime. And that means that I need to block out that time And yes. To somebody else, it might be like, God, you know what you've got, why do you have that extra time off or something? But I'm like, well, if I don't have that, then I will, you know, I won't. I won't, won't thank myself for it later. So, yeah, I dunno if that answers the
Rhona: No, that's brilliant and and honestly that is such a brilliant attitude 'cause I think it's really easy to, all of us are completely different and I know that. Neurodiversity, neurodiversity diagnosis at the moment is quite a taboo topic. And just to be clear on this podcast, I think if anybody thinks that they resonate with something, they should explore it and they should learn how their brain works.
And it is not, you know, you're, I would never criticise a person for doing that. I massively support everybody understanding themselves, whatever that means for them. Um, and I think that, you know, you've done such an amazing job there to understand yourself. I think, you know, you've really said it as well that it's.
Not as simple as, oh, you just get this, label and the diagnosis is the smallest, least important part of it. It's all the work that you do after the door is opened. I think, and I try to say, 'cause I work with lots of people who are. Thinking about whether they would want to go down that route or whether they, you know, do they want to look into it?
And sometimes, especially because with the NHS, you know, you can be waiting some places in the country, it's five years to, to, to get an answer. And I'm always like, well, you've got five years. Just, start doing the work now. Like at the end of the day. Because of the way the services and system work, it's kind of put on you anyway.
So you, you, if you think you have something going on here, you might as well start understanding it and making it work for your life. Um, and, and then. The really important thing in that I think is being kind to yourself and not saying, oh, well my friend Amy, she can do this, and she never has to have a rest.
She can work a 70 hour weekend, she can still train for everything, and she has a family and she never takes two minutes off and like, fine. Amy does that, but you can't do that.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah, exactly. Still definitely, like, I'm much more along the journey with that, but I'm still definitely, there's, there's occasional times I'm like, oh yeah, that comparison comes in. And I'm like, oh, no, but, but yeah, that's not me. And that's okay. Yeah.
Rhona: And that, and you know what, like that person, they have their own burdens anyway. Like, you know, is there a reason that that person has to work 70 hours a week and train for an ultra and have a, and you know, look after people? Like, is that healthy either? You know, we've all, we're all doing our, our best here.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Definitely, definitely. Yeah. There's a really interesting, attitude around. ultra space i'm thinking about ultra running mainly, but kind of around how much people are doing and kind of how many races people are entering. And it's kind of like, okay. You know, so something that, that, avoiding something like, you know, not thinking about anyone in particular, but just kind of the general It's like, well. If you feel like you need to do those things, there's maybe something that you're avoiding feeling or something that you're trying to get away from by doing these crazy hard things.
'cause you know, at some point you're gonna have to face that thing. Yeah.
Rhona: Yeah, well it's a very good plaster and I, yeah, I talk about that with a lot of people that, you eventually, you know there's gonna be an injury or an illness, or you're gonna decide, I don't know, to start family, and that means you can't run as much or whatever, and you, at that point, you're not gonna have that crutch and you need to.
Whatever you were using exercise to mask, you're gonna have to deal with it at some point.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah. Yeah.
Rhona: You can't outrun it forever.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Like this kind of, we've, um. Glorified. I, I, I listened to your podcast with Vedangi and I really like, loved it and I think, yeah, very inspiring human. And you know, I think you mentioned in that with, with Vedangi, that like we glorify the pot, like ultra world, whereas, you know, look differently if someone, if they had another coping mechanism and you are like, that's, ooh.
Like why, why do we do that? Like, it's, yeah, it's very interesting.
Rhona: I know and I think that we do have to be careful there as well because for sure there is a, it is like you were saying about now people are starting to talk about how much training, how many ultras you run in a year or whatever. There is a number where this becomes unhealthy physically and you are probably shortening your life and you are probably actually gonna give yourself long-term effects.
But because it's exercise and because you look healthy, you know, 'cause you're slim and you look fit and whatever you, we very much. We're still idolising that instead of going, wait a second. You know, and, and we don't, I don't, I think the problem is nobody, I don't have any stats or numbers to back this up, so I'm very much talking on like hypothesis here.
But I think if we did do some really good looking into it, I suspect that, you know, there are some things that we as a culture see as really unhealthy behaviors that are probably as risky as doing ultra racing.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): That would be really interesting. Like study. Yeah.
Rhona: Yeah, I know. I think the, the slight problem is that, you know, there's not, the, the big thing with, uh, doing studies into ultra athletes is that it's still relatively quite a niche thing to do. So getting the numbers to have statist statistically significant, uh, results is quite hard.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): yeah. Yeah.
Rhona: But you know, there might be something there and either, either way though, I think we should question it and not just assume that, um, doing more is always better.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah, definitely. And that's kind of, you know, the space that I working within coaching, really thinking about. Love running and that like is still a big part of my life, but, is this coming from a healthy place or is this because I feel like this, I'm trying to avoid something and just making sure that yeah, we're not, we're not, like you said, using one as a crutch too much to then we couldn't cope if, if something crops up when you can't do the thing that you want to do and you have, it's like that whole thing of you want to have a whole basket and a whole toolbox of things to use rather than just one thing and that become everything and you, you know, like.
Your identity is that thing. Um, because yeah, that's a lot of, um, to do that was actually, I didn't even mention that. That was the main reason with my, my own struggles. That my identity was literally just sport. And, and then I have these other things and it, and it really, um, yeah, it's not when you become that singular thing, it's just, uh, not conducive to, to having a nice life.
Rhona: No, absolutely, and I think that at the end of the day, we all as individual humans have so much value as who we are. It doesn't matter what we do. It doesn't matter what your job is. It doesn't matter what your hobbies are. You are really valuable and interesting as a person without that stuff.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I love that. Like that's so, yeah. That's so lovely to hear. 'cause I, yeah. Feel like that's so important. Um, 'cause I think people will get worried if the, those things are taken away. I know with me, like if I, oh, if that thing is taken away, will people still like me? Or, or what will I be, and actually, yeah, we all just have that value and you don't have to do that thing to, to feel like you're okay as a person.
Yeah. That's really lovely.
Rhona: Yeah, hopefully, you know, more and more people I think are seeing that and I do think that there is a sway and that people are having these conversations, which is nicer. Um, but you definitely still see people having struggles.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah.
Rhona: what's the, is there any like, really things that when you've reflected on your time as a coach, that you just go, oh yeah, this is a, such a common mistake, or such a common misbelief that people have that you could, uh, enlighten us with?
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Really good question. thinking about, I'm one, I'm thinking about within my swim, swim coaching and stuff, and. I think, well, it takes me a while to think about things, but the first thing that's come to my brain is kind of like thinking that if you haven't learned when you are younger, that you can't learn now and you can't be as good now or can't do that thing in that inner where with a lot of people there's a lot of negative self-belief about being able to do the goal they want to do, but then. Every time, literally every time I've then worked with that person the water. Um, for example, we've then they've done the thing they wanted to do in. For example, if someone doesn't, you think that they can learn from crawl, but then they've, then they've swam the whole width tarn and a lake and they, they're like, oh, I've done it.
Or like, to the point where , someone wanted to swim to an island. Yeah. Across. And they didn't think they could do it. And then, then we, we built up for it over the summer and then they did. And it's just that I think. I love seeing people achieve what they want to do because I know they can do it.
And if they have the right skills and experience and they work on it, and they have that right, I guess, supportive environment, but then they go away and they do the work and they practice and they, yeah, they. believe a little bit more in themselves. Then when they reach it, it's just so, it's just so cool to see.
'cause then they've proved themselves wrong. Um, but it's just really sad that we, 'cause I I do it as well. We have these self-limiting beliefs and we think no, I, you know, there's that ceiling. Like I'm, I can't do that because Yeah, obviously it's, it's a, it's. It's not gonna come as naturally if you learn it when you're a kid.
But the whole, I think we forget the whole point is this process of learning the new thing and it's gonna feel hard and icky and like, ugh and annoying and one step forward, two steps back. But then especially in swimming when you, you know, I throw one thing on and then they're like, oh, and now the other things have gone out the window.
Like our brains are really funny when we're learning strokes in swimming. Um, but then when it all clicks. Then they're like, oh, it just, yeah. It's just really cool to then see you when people actually what they didn't think they could, even though they were willing to try, which is amazing.
That's literally the the most important thing and I think, yeah, being able to support someone through that and show up for them and remind them that they can do it is, is really powerful.
Rhona: Oh, I, I love that. And I actually, I buy into that so much and I think this, those the really interesting things to. There isn't there that, um, when we are kids, we would never question learning a new skill. It's just like your entire childhood is learning. You're just constantly absorbing and learning and you don't even really know that you're doing it.
And you would never question it. Somebody would just be like, you would see somebody do something and you'd be like, oh, cool, I wanna go try that. And then you just do and you don't even like, and also we do it as play. Rather, so you're not even thinking about it as, you know, you don't start to think about like, I'm gonna learn how to swim.
I know I'll go and read online. How do you swim? You know, you wouldn't, as a child, you wouldn't think about that. They would like watch and copy and then they'd kind of mess around and when they got it wrong, they would laugh and kind of splash each other and it wouldn't. You know, there's, and so I think as adults we really miss those two bits.
We forget that you can play and that you can just have fun. And that, like, if you went to learn a skill, it doesn't matter if you didn't go in the first day from zero to hero, you, you just, if you are enjoying it and you're messing around while you're doing it, who cares? And also that we can learn new things.
'cause you, we put ourselves in boxes and we're like, oh, well I'm in this box now I'm a cyclist so I can't swim.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah. Yeah. And then there's that shame and embarrassment of like, I think if you've say been good in one thing, um, of, you know, total beginner in another, in another space and. The people who I am so inspired by are those who start from the beginning and there's no shame and there is no shame.
Where's that coming from? We're judging ourselves so harshly, um, to pick up something new. And I know I still do it, and then I'm like trying to just, yeah, like be like, no, actually this has given me motivation to really look, question that again and be like, but who's judging me? Like it's me. And then that's putting, that's meaning that I'm not. what I want to, or putting myself out there. I'm going climbing later and it's a really fun sport that I've not done as a, as a kid. I've dabbled in it a little bit, but I just love it because it's a much slower type of sport for me. 'cause I do it, I'm like, have a snack, have, you know, try a little bit and, and, but yeah, I'm doing the easiest grades, but it's just so fun.
But I think, yeah, there's a lot of judgment in. It can be in trying new things as an adult.
Rhona: I think you're right though. I think that that judgment's coming mostly from inside ourselves because like you said, uh, if I think about people who really inspire me and lots of the work I've done is getting people into sports or into activities and I'm so, so inspired by somebody who comes along and they say, oh.
I've got this bike from my uncle's garage and it's been there 20 years and I've never ridden a bike off road before, but I've come along to your group and I want to, I'm like, that's the most inspiring thing I've ever heard.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I love that. That sounds incredible. Yes, totally.
Rhona: But I totally agree. If I went to try something new, I feel like I had to be, you know, good at it or whatever. But that's coming from inside. Other people aren't thinking that about me. The other people are probably all thinking, oh, that's so cool that she's trying.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah. And then like you are like, God, yeah, we limit ourselves. So much if we, if I have that belief and if we, so I think yeah, just, just harnessing and like maybe, yeah. Thinking about that, harnessing that in a child of what that child just to play with it and just like, yeah, go and play and do something new and then see what happens and Yeah.
It is, it's so, so powerful when you do that.
Rhona: Yeah, I think a lot of coaching theory is like taught now, isn't it? About play style learning and stuff and that and, 'cause there is so much in that for adults too. For sure. And that's where also you really see people start to bond. If you've got a group, and I dunno if you coach groups as well, but like, you know, once they, there's some play involved, like people start to giggle and they're joking, it's a bit of banter and then suddenly the whole environment is just changed.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Definitely. I think when, yeah, I think allowing, allowing ourselves to do that is like the, the most important step. But yeah, I definitely see that. And other people encouraging others is always so powerful as well. And like creating that space, there's so much good stuff can happen. Yeah.
Rhona: Totally. I think that there is, you know, improvements there. Like, um, so, uh, so I used to run something called Peak Gravel Gang in the Peak District and they've got Lakes Gravel Gang in the Lake District. You might have seen it. Um, and that's like a kind of a cycling community to get people, you know, it's really aimed at getting people cycling who maybe wouldn't have been in just everybody having a nice time.
And it's really similar, I think. To the kind of vibes that you try to bring in your guiding and your coaching by the sounds of things. I mean, I haven't, I haven't been guided by you, but it sounds like it. Um, and I think the world that these spaces are appearing, but I guess the things that still frustrate me is that they still fully rely on somebody to.
Want to do it and be motivated enough to kind of give up their time and do it. But all, and, and, you know, the, the government and the act and the resources, the council, the people who should be supporting healthy habits aren't doing that. Um, and that, yeah, that, you know, although these spaces are coming, I still think that most funded sport is still very much sport, not just like movement for fun.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah, a hundred percent. The, the focus is always on. I'm just thinking about the, you know, athletics and track is always on that medals and that, that sport and actual, rather than, yeah, just being outside and being active in a sa in a space that's like, you know, the NHS guidelines of just, just moving is still exercise that, you know, like a walk and stuff.
And I think, yeah, there's something skewed there around, like you said, there's no. There's, there's lack less funding in that space. My friend is, has set up a cool charity or CIC called Tracks and Dales, and he's like getting. And it's, I, I love the concept because you think about guiding, we, a lot of the time it's kind of like, you know, going up a big mountain, but, um, he's just getting people, I think it's being socially prescribed as well.
Um, although that might need to be fact checked, but like getting pe just going for a walk with them to get them out and like, just in really much more viewing it from just a shorter walk. And I think that's a gap that like, exactly like you said, there's this gap and that's. The most important step is just getting out and then people can build their confidence.
But we can't go from not leaving the house to going up. Scout fell pike. Kind of there's There's somewhere in between. Yeah.
Rhona: Yeah, and I think you have to be able to see how you get there to be able to want to go out in the first place because otherwise it kind of feels like there's no point. If there's, yeah, and I think that's where we, we miss it a lot of the time. We're not really providing fun spaces for adults to just go out and be moving, but not, not have to be aiming for anything massive or wild.
And you do some stuff. I guess this kind of comes into, you are really into actually thinking about the nature around you, aren't you? I listened to another podcast you're on and you're talking about that. And I was like, I love that. But that's quite a nice way to just get people out and be motivated to go out because of nature.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I love, um, I love nature connection stuff, and there's so much research in how important that is for our mental health I think a lot of us maybe feel like, I think I alluded to it at the beginning, a lot of us feel like we are, we are connecting with nature and obviously being out in nature does have some benefit, but actually building an even more deeper connection with nature is even more powerful for our mental health. So it's kind of that next step, I guess, immersing yourself in it. And that means a lot of the time not moving so fast on the hill. So it's kind of like the opposite of what I would used to do and, and do, you know, on runs, it is actually stopping to notice things and slowing down and paying attention where I know I feel the best in myself is , where I've just literally noticed something like a, a common plant or something or a mushroom or something where I'm like, oh, that's so cool. Or a bird. And I just get so much joy from that and it's, I know, I feel like my friends always just laugh at me because I get so excited when I see something random and 'cause of my memory.
I always forget that. I've seen, probably seen it before, but it's just like. Yeah, there's so much joy in that, and I think if we can tune people in to seeing what's around us, and that can literally just be your local park or even like a local, on a wall. There's stuff growing. And I think when you notice those little things. It can just be like, oh wow. You're not in your head, you're looking outside and like, how amazing is that, that that's grown from, from a crack in a pavement or something. I think it, um, I find it really powerful. Yeah.
Rhona: Yeah. I love that. And I think, I think that comes with that shift in perspective of not that not everything you do has to be purposeful and has to be achieving a. Goal, um, 'cause that doesn't. I mean, I guess you could kind of say it has a purpose, but you know, it's not really achieving something. Um, but it is, it has, it is, it makes you feel joy and the more you slow down and get into it, the, the more enjoyment you're gonna get from it.
I think I'm still need to slow down a bit more, but the, I feel like when I see stuff that other people really appreciate, I'm like, yeah, you know, but also I just need to get to this place that I need to get to and I need. And, and, and I think sometimes if I do slow down I really enjoy it, but then I feel like I'd enjoy it even more if I actually knew, oh, that's what that bird can do and this is its name and this is what it eats and that, and it's doing this 'cause it's building a nest.
And that as soon as I kind of know a bit more of the, how it all fits in together, I'm way more interested. It's really interested.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I love that. And that's almost like it's sparking that. I totally hear you. I'm, if I'm in a rush to get somewhere, I need to get somewhere, you can miss things. And, and when I have those days where I'm a bit more just noticing what's around and like. When Yeah, you see the bird, then you, you know what the, for example, if you spot a bird in the garden and then you are like, oh, yeah, now I know what its bird call is. Then you can be like, oh, it's having a little argument with its friend.
I just think once you spark that curiosity and you, you allow it, and rather than being in that rushed head space, like. much curiosity can come from that and you then understand yeah, the behaviours and then, then I think the most important thing, not the most important thing, but, a really powerful thing from that, and Cal major talks about this a lot, is like, then when we are connected to that space, we then want to look after and protect it.
So it's kind of that a double win, like a win-win situation because we are connecting more people to the environments and then, and then we're gonna want to look after it rather than. Behave in a way that that isn't conducive to, to keeping these spaces, enjoyable for everybody. So
Rhona: That's so true and they're so, yeah, that's super powerful because really at the end of the day, we all need to kinda feel a bit more responsibility for our planet. So the more that we feel connect to things and the more that we actually appreciate them, that would be better.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): yeah, totally.
Rhona: Yeah, I mean that's, so Lauren, what do you now feel, do you, obviously you still have some goals, but what is achievement for you now?
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): What is achievement? Um, I've not, I've not really thought about that. Like, so I still, I enjoy Fell running still. Um, does achievement look like? know what I don't know.
Rhona: Maybe that's kind of a good thing though.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I do. I don't
Rhona: Because I think if I'd said it and you immediately said, oh, well it's like winning this race or running a half marathon in this time, then that's, you know, means you're still quite like in that
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): yeah,
Rhona: how the world works, this is how you feel worth kind of way.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): I don't think I know. I think, well, I think it's because. I've really tried to build, build a way of living where I am living to what my values are, and I'm, I'm about these things and I'm then doing things I enjoy. And I'm not saying it's always easy, like all these things, but then that means that's kind of the achievement in the sense of like, I'm trying to build a life that that works for me rather than. Thin the other way around. Um, so maybe that is the achievement. I don't know. Yeah.
Rhona: I love that answer. I think we have a lot of things in common, actually. Um, so sometimes my brother asks me like, what are you working towards at the moment?, What's your goal right now? Or like, what, what are you, what are you gonna achieve this year?
He asks me questions like this all the time, and he's like a really sort of thing. He can only focus on one thing at once, and he's really driven to just like. One thing, and he has to be on that. And, and, and, and that is in part his brain type and in part like how he, what works for him. Um, and he's has tries to have a healthy balance with that.
But then I say it back to him, I'm like, no, I just like my, what I'm doing is just trying to manage all of it and like be happy and healthy. Like that's what I'm trying to do. I'm just trying to do a bit of all the things and stay afloat and actually be happy.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): that is, is literally, yeah, I can very much relate to that and resonate. I think that's what I'm
Rhona: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a great, a great thing to be, to be honest. It's really easy for to, to get that wrong, um, especially if you are trying to do a lot of stuff, different things. Um, but it sounds like you really have your priorities in a good place, and it's really refreshing to hear, uh, the way that you have shaped your life to make it suit you.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah, and I think, you know, I have to check in on, like we, we mentioned, I have to check in on how busy I am, 'cause I know my natural thing is to say yes to things. So that could kind of get in the way of. get in the way, but like actually, oh, I'm getting a bit burnt out or it's not sustainable.
So that, that's kind of, I guess my tests and challenges is making sure that that things are sustainable and that I'm saying yes, things that I want to do. And it's not too busy. Um, and, and when I'm racing, still reminding myself that, you know, there's, there's old, those old voices are. They're not, they're still, they can still be there, but it's check, it's am I, am I tired? I'm making sure that they're not becoming dominant. So like, just, just constantly doing the work around that to make sure that when I am racing, I'm doing it for the right reasons and enjoying it. And just checking on those things. 'cause you, you've had a hard day and if personal things are going on, it can really, um. It can it, your old habits can come back. So it's kind of like just making sure that I'm constantly checking in on where I'm at. Yeah.
Rhona: Yeah, I don't think, um, sadly, that it's ever just becomes easy.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah.
Rhona: Um, I think, I think if you are prone to taking things too far or to overdoing it, or I think you, we end up. I don't wanna say battling 'cause that sounds a bit depressing, but you know, you, you somewhat have to fight it a little bit forever maybe.
Um, and I don't think that that means we have to look at the future and feel sad about that. Um, I think there are so many positive gifts that come with being a really driven and interesting and creative and person. The, you know, you've gained so much in life from being that type of person, but you do also have the chance that you might take it a bit too far sometimes.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Yeah. I, I, I really like that. And yeah, just, just checking in on that exactly. Like, oh yeah, have I gone, have I gone too far again? Um, but yeah, I think it's funny, like yeah, I know that. 10 years later now, like now compared to 10 years ago, I'm definitely,, in a much better place. So that's cool.
Rhona: That is really nice to hear. I feel like that's where, where we should leave the episode, to be honest. 'cause that's such a nice way to end on, um, and honestly, I think you. I mean, I, I, a lot of the time I have, I, I do a bit of research on people, but I don't really know what we're gonna talk about. Um, but you had such a lovely story and, um, I mean, I resonated a lot with your story.
I feel like we've had actually quite similar paths, so it's been really nice to hear about it.
Lauren Munro-Bennett (she/her): Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. I've really enjoyed chatting and yeah, I really love the community that you're creating. Um, I think it's very important and very powerful.
Rhona: That was a truly wonderful episode with Lauren. I absolutely love her approach to safeguarding her time and hugely resonate with the fact she sometimes feels guilty for doing something she loves whilst being able to work in a way that allows for rest and balance. This is exactly the kind of theme I wanted to come out of this podcast.
I don't know why we got to a place where we feel bad if we're taking time to stay healthy alongside working hard. I know I've struggled with this concept and often felt unless I'm teetering on the edge of collapse, I'm somehow not contributing enough. I appreciated Lauren's openness about her mental health and experiences with neurodiversity.
As I said in the episode, this community is a safe space to talk about neurodiversity with no judgments, no stigmas, and no questioning of validity. Because I think if talking about it or identifying with certain aspects of the neurodiversity spectrum encourages us all to think about how our brain works, then we're only going to grow as humans.
I absolutely loved that Lauren's biggest lesson from her coaching experience is that all you need is to be willing to try, and you can achieve your goals. It's never too late to learn a new skill and give it a shot, and you just build up from the beginning. There's honestly too much to unpack in this outro, but I hope you enjoyed Lauren's stories as much as I did.
See you next time