Steph Wetherell Transcript
Hello, welcome to another episode of the Rest Days Community Podcast. This week we speak to the truly delightful Steph Wetherell. Steph has a wonderful journey with the outdoors, which has become intertwined with finding love for herself and solitude. Through outdoor adventure stories, we hear how Steph frames solitude and seeks it out for growth, relaxation, and enjoyment.
This is a really interesting episode, and I think we cover a perspective on rest and outdoor activity that hasn't yet been touched on much. I hope you enjoy
Rhona: Hi, Steph. Welcome to The Rest Days Community Podcast. it's really nice to have you on here.I'm excited to have some deep and interesting chats all about rest and life. I don't know that much about you, so I'm really excited to h- to hear, you a little bit about your life. but thanks for being here.
So tell me a bit about yourself so we can get s- make some groundwork.
Steph: So I'm 43 Um I live in Bristol Uh and I work as a freelancer in kind of I guess bridging farming and the outdoors the
Um across kind of different different jobs But uh I juggle four jobs uh at the moment uh which is great and I really Um a lot of the time working for kind of small organisations kind of not-for-profit organisations
difficult but I think to manageat juggling a lot of stuff but it often means that my brain is quite full, quite busy
that, uh I have a multicolored Google spreadsheets uh and calendars and lots of lists Uh basically that's kind of like my working life That's what that looks like So I kind of coordinate projects a little bit of comms I do some writing um all in a wonderful like little
Rhona: do all four of your jobs compete for your time, or are they actually quite set in the amount of work that you do for them all?
Steph: you do for them Uh so I have a set number of like days a month I do for each of them and I try to quite hard to stick with that And I think what's hard is when some of them uh of go down or go up Uh so I I'm part of Everybody Outdoors uh which is a community for plus size people which I started with Emily who's one of the people who you've had on the podcast before Um and I uh like for the for a while I was working two days a week on that job but then because of funding that's gone down I'm now doing two days a month But obviously there's basically still the same amount of work to do and so I have to be find how to be quite boundaried about that But I've had to pick up other work to kind of fill the financial gap Um so it's it's I'm I'm I think you know it's taken me quite a long time to get to the point of with work of realising that this is what I'm Like I'm really good at this and I love it I love the variety There's probably a little bit of like uh neurodiversity going on in my brain Um but I really like the variety I like the fact that no day looks the same Like all my jobs are really different I can manage my own time I can pick up what I feel like doing that day You know I'm very very organised and very good at managing that But then it's sometimes really
Rhona: Mm
Steph: It's like that's what my brain's like all the time which means I can do this job but then how do you turn off from that is is like the other side of
Rhona: Does your free time also have colour-coded spreadsheets, or is that left more...
Steph: schedules and lists Um generally not unless I'm planning a trip in which case I like to like know know what know what I'm doing Uh no I think uh it took it took me a really long time to work out how to switch off and I think that was a really big thing for me because yeah because my brain is really busy and holds a lot of stuff and that was what makes me really good at my job But then how do you leave that behind at the end of the working day especially when you're freelance and those boundaries are often a little bit blurry with freelance Like I you know with some of my jobs I have to work evenings or I have to work weekends and it's like when when am I off the clock and how do I actually turn off from that Especially when you do comms and your job is on your phone uh and everyone uses WhatsApp for work and can't cope with the little red circles and and all of those things Um think that's the way I got So I got into hiking about 10 years ago and I think a huge part of me instantly loving it was was being able to switch off Uh and there's something about I guess being outdoors being on a hill somewhere where like I'm away from the to-do list I'm away from the ability to do anything and I can just yeah like there's a quietness that comes
Rhona: Mm
Yeah. That's, that's,
Steph: Um
Rhona: and I, I, you hear a lot of stories like this, the,
Steph: you know we hear a
Rhona: the outdoor activity is the saviour, because you can't be doing anything else while you're doing it. and obviously your community with everybody out, um, everybody outdoors is like a, that’s it's, community-based.
It's, you know, centered around people doing things together.
what, when you are really needing to switch off, do you like to be with other people or do you like to be by yourself?
Steph: to be with other people or do you like to be by yourself I like to be by myself which I think is like really surprises a lot of people cause I'm quite an outgoing kind of extroverted person But like my happy
Rhona: Mm
Steph: on a hill and ideally for like days at a time Uh I think So I I lived in Canada for a little bit and when I came back from there I did a 10-day silent meditation retreat Um which who spent more than about 10 minutes with me it's hilarious that I managed to stay silent for 10 days Um but I think was such a wonderful experience for me because it really made me find a peace with myself that I'd never found before It's like there was no escaping me for 10 days All I had was me and like I think I worked through some stuff internally around that of just Being okay with myself and f like I think finding the joy of
Rhona: Hmm
Steph: And like I I think I I'm quite particular about using the word solitude as as alone
Rhona: Okay.
Steph: opposed to like
Steph: cause I f for me like solitude's a bit of a
It's a bit of an intentional thing and it's something that I like I think since that point have really actively sought and made part of
If I'm alone Yes yeah if I'm alone in the city in my house
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: you know like struggling Yeah struggling But if you I can do two weeks on my own on a
Rhona: Yeah, it's interesting. So if you're unexpectedly alone, somebody canceled a plan and then you're left and you're like, "Oh, no, what am I gonna do with my afternoon? I've got nothing to do and nobody to speak to," is that a struggle? But if you had planned in an afternoon where you're gonna go for a walk on your own, that's okay?
Steph: a plan and you're left alone that's good Yeah Is that a struggle too But if you had planned it in an afternoon where you were gonna go for a walk or something Yeah
Rhona: Hmm
Steph: that I think it's the choice in the matter and the the mentality that I go into something with It's like sometimes if I'm if I'm in l like a city and I'm like Oh I should be doing something There's so many fun things going on Why aren't I doing anything fun right now or I look around and see all like the stuff that needs doing in my house or or the work to-do list Whereas like making time to go and be
Rhona: Mm-hmm.
Steph: like doing like walking um is a real is a real thing that I love It's it's something that I think has become such a happy place Like I did my And I think what I It's also part of the way I got into walking Um I was really worried about being too slow to walk with other people and so my sister gave me a load of cutouts from a walking magazine with route guides on them And so I just started going out on my own and going for walks And so it was it wasn't necessarily an intentional thing It was like I started doing it on my own and then I realized how good it was for me through that rather than being like Oh I should go and make time to be on my own It was like uh yeah it was the other way around Um and then I did my first like multi-day walk on my own Um and I expected to really struggle And apart from like a bit of a wobble on day three which I've now realized is a is a thing that happens in my brain Like on day three my brain's like What are you doing Why can't you be a normal person who just goes on holiday and sits on a beach And then like day four my brain is just turns zen and it's just calm And it's yeah it's kind of interesting that now I recognize that pattern and I don't get freaked out if I start to be like What am I doing Oh this
Rhona: It's interesting. What's the longest, um, walk that you've done then in terms of days?
Steph: I did two weeks wild camping and
Rhona: That's a long time. Mm.
Steph: Um That's a long time It's a long time And there was a few days that like I'd camp with people that I'd met Like the first week I was pretty much on my own the whole time The second week I there was I think three nights that I camped with the same people but I'd walk on my own during the day Um and like uh somebody kept trying to walk with me and I was like No like I want to be walking on my
Rhona: Mm
Steph: And that's happened to me a few times Like I've done a number of long distance paths on my own and people are like Oh I'll come walk with you And I'm like Oh no I think you've misunderstood the brief Like I've And I'm
Rhona: Mm
Steph: doing this on my own and like I just I really enjoy it and just really enjoyed the like that changes I mean being on your own and doing long distance walking it's like I mean when it's when it's difficult it's really difficult cause you haven't got anyone to like sound things off And I remember I did actually call my friend in Norway I had I got really achy feet the first week cause there was so much road walking and I can remember calling my friend walking into this town and I was walking in my socks holding my boots calling my friend I was like I don't know what to do I just needed someone to like have that conversation with And then as soon as I made a decision that I was gonna like get the bus ahead a few days and have a few days of rest it was like Okay cool great Speak to you
Rhona: Yeah. And you would've made, you c- you know, I'm sure it was you who made that decision and everything, but sometimes you do need a little bit of a sounding board.
Steph: do need a
Rhona: and I think maybe that's where the difference between, like, choosing solitude and there being some loneliness are kind
of
there's, like, this, mm,
Steph: of
Rhona: bit where they can transition from one to the other.
Steph: where they can transition
Rhona: I think loneliness is, like, being aware of the absence o-
Steph: is
Rhona: of, of people, isn't it? And it's, like,
Steph: of
Rhona: being aware that maybe
Steph: like
Rhona: this really difficult situation and I wish I had somebody who I could bounce off.
Steph: I had
Rhona: But whereas, like, like I guess when you've chosen it,
Steph: like
Rhona: um,
Steph: when
Rhona: and you feel good about that, you're like, "I've put myself in this difficult situation and I'm gonna, I want to see what I'm gonna..."
you know
Steph: I'm gonna
Rhona: And, and different points I'm sure that you've felt
Steph: points I'm
Rhona: to,
Steph: felt
Rhona: I'm sure you've felt on both sides of that at different points.
Steph: stood on points Yeah No totally I think I just find it really interesting that like most restful my brain is is when I'm doing something that's really like more phy And I probably it's probably not that that uncommon but like doing something that's more physically demanding It's like you know walking for two weeks it's like you know it's hard work But the the calm point I got to with my brain just was amazing I've been really craving that again and I think that's Like I've had a whole string of injuries over the last couple of years and I think that's been a really difficult thing for me is not being able to do that the same way You know I've I've been able to get out for day walks but I've not done a multi-day walk on my own Like I'm hoping to do one this year But it's uh yeah having had that thing and then like lost that thing and you know there was there was a pandemic in the middle of that Like I also met my partner and that kind of changes things a little bit as well I think and it changes your You know I mean I was very clear when we got together I was like By the way I am just gonna disappear off on my own for a week a year and go walking He was like Okay cool Great That's fine I was like
Rhona: That's super healthy though. I think s- I think, I, you know, people are scared to say that. They're scared,
Steph: say that
Rhona: 'cause we all like to be needed, don't we?
Steph: we
Rhona: little bit, even, you know, it's like a
Steph: Uh a
Rhona: annoying and slightly unhealthy part of us that likes that. But it's really healthy to
Steph: But
Rhona: also need time on your own. Uh, I love that you just went straight in and you were like, "By the way,
Steph: that you just
Rhona: I will be
Steph: in and were like Oh By
Rhona: I will be, needing this time for myself, and if you want to be with me, you have to be okay with that."
That's great.
Steph: Yeah And I think it it's it Like when when I met him it was like he's done a lot of cycling and quite a lot of cycling on his own and it was like okay I think I think firstly mutual type Two fun appreciation like that's that's a good thing Uh like he Like long distance cycling long distance hiking have got that similar thing of like it's
Rhona: Hmm.
Steph: that okayness with doing things on your own Like I am quite independent and yeah Uh I mean I have now I did my first I'd I've walked this most of the South Downs way with him and I have also done a long distance trail with one of my other friends but that was like it was relatively recently I did that Like up until that I'd never done a multi-day walk with someone else Um and I did really enjoy it but I still I still would say my probably preferred way to do a long distance
Rhona: S- it's interesting. I, and I think it's really, really good,
Steph: It's interesting I I think it's really
Rhona: to say that. I think sometimes people are scared to say that, or like to, t- to, they just, yeah, I guess we don't wanna upset other people. We're worried about,
Steph: wanna upset other people We're
Rhona: you
know, that maybe people would be offended if we said we wanted to go and do things on our own.
Steph: if we
Rhona: But it's,
it it's
it's actually fine to want to do that,
Steph: it's
Rhona: and I think that helps with that framing thing, 'cause there'll be people out there who
Steph: framing
Rhona: choose to do things on their own and then maybe they do feel
Steph: to do things
Rhona: that, or they like doing things on their own but they feel weird about that, or they're worried about-
Steph: things alone but they feel
Rhona: So I love that you kind have made this
Steph: So I
Rhona: solitude as this, as like this word that you've chosen.
like
Steph: this
Rhona: you know
mindfulness or something. You know, you're going out and you're actually trying to seek it out.
Steph: and you're actually trying to seek it out I think what's really interesting for me though I got into cycling a few years ago and I feel I feel quite
Rhona: Hmm
Steph: It's like I I've done a lot like amount of cycling on my own but that's mostly been through necessity Um cause I don't really Other than my partner I don't really know anyone who likes doing the same cycling as me And so like last year I joined a cycling mentoring program
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: in Bristol which was for women and marginalized genders and I went in as a mentee and I was like I'm the co opposite to most people which is like I'm quite comfortable cycling on my own but the idea of cycling with other people like scares the the Jesus out of me Like I just I I think it's the fear of being too slow the fear of being left behind all of those things And so my goal during that was like Oh so I I was like I can do the navigation I can do like you know I I'm confident on how far I can cycle I've got a lot of things but what I want to get out of this is being more comfortable cycling with other people because actually that's what draws me into cycling especially into like gravel cycling is like the amazing community especially amongst women in that space And it's like I really That's what I want out of cycling is to do it with other people I mean it's not saying I can't do it on my own and I don't get something out of it but it's switch off the same way on a bike as I
Rhona: Mm-hmm
Hmm. That's interesting. And how has that gone? Are you,
Steph: has that
Rhona: you found people you can cycle with now and you feel comfortable?
Steph: people you can cycle with Yeah Yeah It's been really great Like so yeah I was part of the program last year and my mentor was brilliant And think yeah through through the wider cohort I just I met people who wanted to do the same
Rhona: Mm-hmm
Steph: cycling as me Cause I think up until then like my friends are either city commuters who just wanna cycle a few miles or they're people who wanna go and cycle 150 kilometers really fast And I was like Where are the people who just wanna go on like a 50-kilometer ride out the city stop for lots of breaks really patiently be totally fine waiting for me as I walk up a hill Like
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: that's what I want I don't I'm I'm don't want And I'm realizing also I don't want to join a cycling group I just want a group of people who I can go cycling with Um but yeah it's
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: It's good You seem to know
Rhona: It's good. You seem to know exactly what you need and want, which is great. I, I respect that a lot. Y- you know,
Steph: great I
Rhona: do you think all that time that you've spent, the time you've spent on your own has allowed you to be quite self-reflective?
Steph: on your own has allowed you to be more self-reflective I think yeah I think so I think there's an element of age and getting things wrong and you know I've definitely burnt out in the past um with juggling juggling life juggling everything and not having found that like that down that rest And I think um But I do my best thinking when I'm on my own on a hill It gives me the space to reflect and to think and to dig into stuff I mean also combined with some therapy as well And uh you know like it's it's given me quite a lot of self-awareness and I think I've learned how my brain works and what it needs Um and I definitely don't always get it right but I think I get it more right than I used to Uh and that feels like it's going you know going in the right direction Um yeah and I think it was it was interesting for me when I thought I think I thought I'd get the same thing out of cycling and maybe I would on like a longer trip or something But
Rhona: I think maybe on a trip because the,
Steph: maybe on
Rhona: what you're des- describing with walking day, the da- the days on days and stuff for...
Steph: the
Rhona: I, I get that with cycling.
Steph: I I get
Rhona: and I can get, could get, I can get the same from walking. But for me it's, like, about the fact that
Steph: But for
Rhona: yesterday all you did was get up and go from A to B.
Today, all you did was get, you know, and, like,
tomorrow that's all you'll do
Steph: get
Rhona: And being, and, like, that's, that rhythm is very therapeutic for me. So if if
if that if that works
for you, then I think you'd get the same from cycling it too.
Steph: I I think and I think my favorite hiking trips are the ones
Rhona: Hmm
Steph: camped because there isn't You're not even thinking about like Oh I've got to get to this place where I've booked accommodation It's literally Oh I've got to you know at some point I've got to find somewhere that's flat enough and sheltered enough to camp but I can stop when I want to stop and and and then tomorrow I just get up and I walk again And I just It's such Yeah love I love waking up and
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: walk It's like the rest of the world you know you're sheltered from the rest of the world you're sheltered from the news you're sheltered from work all of those things It's like all
Rhona: And not having that end destination I think is-
Steph: I think
Rhona: Very good for us because we love to tick things off,
Steph: we
Rhona: and it sounds like you quite like that too. It sounds,
you know we love to
finish a task, and we love to do the next thing, and we love to have a purpose.
Steph: the next
Rhona: So not having that and just being like, "I'm just gonna walk and see what happens," so
Steph: and
Rhona: good for you.
I think that is something about doing any long distance anything that is a really healthy habit you pick up is if you just sat and thought,
Steph: you
Rhona: "Oh my gosh, the kilometers are ticking down so slowly. When's the next, when can I next eat a snack? When can I next drink some water? When can I next g- have a break?"
If you think about it like that, it feels like it drags forever. So you have to, like, just sit in it, don't you? You have to just be in the disc- i- if it's uncomfortable, you have to be in the discomfort and be okay with it. And if it's really lovely, then it's easier to be in the moment. But you will get both on something like that.
Steph: in the moment and it's it it's a comfort knowing you can stop wherever you feel good then I think it's really lovely and it's easier to be in the moment Yeah And You will get both on something like that I think when I was younger I was really into like pushing myself and seeing what I could achieve especially when I got into hiking cause I think you know as a plus size person it was like I didn't always have a particularly healthy relationship with my body It was very much like what it wasn't It's like it can't do this it's not that Um and when I got into hiking it would turn to It really changed that narrative It was like Oh my God my body's amazing It can do all these things the need to prove both to myself but to other people that it's like plus size people could do this My body can do this And so like you know I I used to record how many miles I walked in a year like when I was doing a hiking trail I was like Oh can I do it like the same as everyone else And then suddenly I don't know maybe it's turning 40 but there's just something in my brain that's just like I just wanna have a nice time now Like you know the latest route I was looking at was I was looking at doing the Dales Way and I was like Oh yeah you know I like walking about 12 miles in a day like above that so much 15 up to 15 is all right Above that my body just hurts and that's what I've learned about my body It's like I've done it I've walked further than that Did I enjoy it No I'm just counting the kilometers until like the end like why not just walk as far as I enjoy walking Like I don't need to prove anything to myself any longer I don't need to prove anything to anyone else because I
Rhona: And you're already, yeah.
Steph: I just
Rhona: I know I've said this many times to people as well because it's funny because
Steph: times
Rhona: if, obviously you're doing it because you want to, so why wouldn't you do the amount you want to?
Steph: Why
Rhona: And if you're thinking about the other things, for example, like being outside is good for your mental health.
Well,
you've
Steph: being
Rhona: you've walked 12 miles, you've been outside long enough to have given yourself, you know, good, to,
Steph: to have
Rhona: break f- you know, for your mental health, and it's
Steph: know for your
Rhona: good for your physical health. Well, 12, again, 12 miles is plenty long enough for your physical health. So what, what is that extra bit above that gaining you?
Steph: that extra bit
Rhona: Nothing. Yeah.
Steph: Yeah And it's Yeah I think it's just you know like when you turn on Instagram and you look at people doing trails and they're doing 20 25 mile days and you're like Oh God I've got to do that And it's like you don't There's there's turns out there's plenty of people who like walking 12 miles they're just not always
Rhona: There's probably more people. In fact, well, actually, most people aren't walking any miles,
Steph: most people
Rhona: so there's that.
Steph: eight miles Yeah
Rhona: And then there's, you know, and then the next largest group is people who are walking under that.
Steph: group
Rhona: It's just that, yeah, those few...
Steph: Yeah
Rhona: Because always the people who do the extremes get
Steph: the
Rhona: the interest and the attention.
It's makes it,
you know
Steph: the attention
Rhona: yeah, but it, I, I think that is unfortunately one of the dangers of, uh, social media, isn't it? It's, like, lots of joys about it, but
Steph: media
Rhona: the s- the comparison is, is dangerous, for sure. When you're on a trip, do you, are you, do you restrict your social media use, or what do you do?
Steph: Yeah Generally It's like when e es especially if I'm o on my own on a big trip I tend to really try and limit it I like to try and switch off as much as possible Um you know I have my phone mostly for safety reasons and I have like quite Cause I do so much walking on my own I have quite good systems uh for like I have a for a day walk I have a friend
Rhona: That's
Steph: in with Like we're each other's buddy We share our route we share what time we're supposed to be back we both know enough to know what to do if the person doesn't reply to say I'm
Rhona: great.
Steph: Right and on a longer trip I usually have a group of people I check in with But yeah I do really try and stay off Like I I when I was in Norway I think I read 13 books um uh in two weeks because it was cold so I had to get into my tent at
Rhona: That's like
Steph: And so I was like well I've got like four hours a day of just reading before I can fall asleep And then
Rhona: a book
Steph: quick reader but yeah That's a book a day Yeah I read I read a lot
Rhona: day. Whoa, you must
Steph: Yeah no I do read pretty quickly Uh but I mean that also probably did include like the travel out there and back but it was
Rhona: Holy moly, that's, like, how many I read a year, and I thought that was decent. I was like, I'm like, "Oh, that's quite a good number of books. I'm quite well-read." And you read that in a holiday. Whoa. That's amazing. Goodness me. I mean, am a particularly slow reader, but that still, that kind of blows my mind that you could read that.
Steph: of blows my mind I I was in a particularly fast reading time uh as well but that was the only entertainment I had with me was the book Like I had a Kindle and that was that was all I had for like you know from the odd
Rhona: S-
Steph: with people
Rhona: so good though because h- sometimes I do think, you know,
yeah I
mean, it's just so easy to pick up your phone. It's just there. You've sat down, and you could just so easily pick it up and start scrolling, and an hou- you know, an hour, a whole hour could just disappear. Instead, in an hour, you basically must have ridden, read, like, a quarter of a book.
Think how much you broadened your mind in that hour instead of
Steph: filled
Rhona: looking at absolute
Steph: hour instead
Rhona: on the internet.
Steph: yeah Um when I'm out like for day walks I do try to like stay off it as much as possible and like you know I'll post when I get back or whatever But I think um I really hate that feeling where you're somewhere and you're like Ooh I could write about this I could do a post about this I'm just like Oh I don't know Just shush Um but I also do find like cause I work as a writer as well like I get really good ideas so I'm often taking notes I'm walking along and I'm like Ooh this would be really interesting to write about Um cause it's just like that
Rhona: Yeah, that's, that's h- that's good.
Steph: I mean I used to I used to kind of probably walk on my own as a day walk a fortnight at least once a month Um and um and that's what I'm trying trying to get back to is like at least once a month Um and I'm in that weird period where I think I've got busy with work which is great also I used to only probably work four days a week and so I'd have time to go off one day a week or you know like at least one day every other week and go walking And so at the moment it's trying to kind of make sure I find that balance again because juggling four jobs is great but you can't juggle four jobs full time because your brain will implode and so it's just trying to build back in that kind of that slack and that relaxation time as as part of being able to do that jo those jobs is like I also then need to go off walking one
Rhona: Yes.
Steph: week Um
Rhona: Yep.
Steph: Yes Yeah But I feel I so I hurt my back quite badly at the start of last year and it's only really recently that I've got that back I think I did my first solo hike just before Christmas Um and it's only probably in the last couple of months that I'm doing it a bit more regularly And so like it's suddenly like when all of your coping mechanisms are taken away from you when you can't cycle when you can't hike when you can't swim it's like Oh no like How do I chill my
Rhona: Yes, and I, uh, yeah, you, you got into some really interesting kinda
Steph: You
Rhona: stuff that I love to talk about on this podcast. So,
I
mean, I love,
podcast
I very much love the idea that movement is medicine for our brains, and that, you know,
for our brains
an active, a physically active day can be a rest day for, you know, com- if you've been busy working all week.
if
and,
Steph: working
Rhona: you know
it's not just, like, physically, who, people who are physically active all day every day who need a phys- they need a physical rest day, but we need mental rest days too
Steph: day
Rhona: in, in this, in the world.
Steph: Mm in this
Rhona: like I w- I think that, you know, you've really, like, hit onto that and you're saying that.
Steph: like hit
Rhona: but I think that there's this also, there has to be resilience in the system because sometimes we become really reliant
sometimes you
one thing, you know?
Steph: on
Rhona: think anybody who has enjoyed an outdoor activity
who's
and really loved it will sympathize with this. Then you get an injury or an illness or something,
you
and suddenly when you can't do it, it's like, "Oh, how do I cope?
Oh my goodness, I literally have no coping mechanisms."
Steph: with this mechanisms Yeah totally Um and it turns out my coping
Rhona: Oh.
Steph: Got real I got I've got really into birds And I think it was like you know it was a little bit there in the background It was like slowly creeping in and then I look at the acceleration of my interest in birds over the last year And I think what I like about it is they're just everywhere can just walk down to the end of my road and spend 10 minutes just seeing what birds are there And it's the similar kind of like it's enough I guess it's enough purpose that it focuses my brain but also
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: space in
Rhona: Yeah, I've spoken to a lot of people who've said that,
I've
you know who've
of
who've had a very similar s- situation where,
have had a very
they have found something that still got them out the door,
that
it just didn't, you didn't do the same level of activity or m- movement that you were doing.
Steph: of Yeah movement that
Rhona: and so yeah. I've ... Also, some people have had photography as well, is a g- another good one because, you know,
Steph: Mm
Rhona: if you go out and you just wanna take p-
Steph: then
Rhona: go and watch a nice sunset and take a nice picture of it, it gets you to go to the sunset, and you feel so much better for it.
Steph: sunset
Rhona: and yeah, birds is also a great one. Or other nature. You had one guest who was like,
nature You
to just go and, like, prod the moss
wants
and, like, feel the leaves on the tree.
feel the
That's also a great one as well.
That's also a
'cause you kind
of
sometimes don't notice those things when you're moving through it.
Steph: doing it No And it it's it's one of those things that has then continued to change
Rhona: Mm
Steph: Like the more I've learned about birds the more birds I've learned Like now when I'm out on a longer hike I'm like Ooh what's that And I I stop and I rest and I Yeah you're not just passing through You're not just kind of Yeah trying to knock off those miles I'm much more observant of what's around me I'm much more aware of where I am like the habitat I'm in might be there and being like Oh that's pretty cool I didn't know you know X Y Z might be here Um yeah
Rhona: That's all right. So, um, you mentioned before that you have sometimes had times where,
you
know, work has maybe been a lot and there have been points of burnout.
Steph: you know a lot and you're
Rhona: how did you re-correct that course? Was ... Did ... Are you somebody who it takes a while to realize that you've kinda,
Steph: to
Rhona: that you've got nothing left to give?
Or did you realize, are you quite good at-
Steph: to give Yeah And like I've ha I'd say I've had a few burnouts in the past where I've not really seen it kind of coming and I've burnt out and it's taken a while to kind of recover and really having to like pull back from a lot of stuff just let your body kind of and your brain reset and I had one time where which really like a work situation just massively kicked off amount of anxiety and I just I couldn't even like social stuff I just texted all my friends and I was like Please invite me round because I can't invite you round and I'd like to see you Um uh and yeah I think you know walking was part of it I knew I you know this was quite a while ago but I uh I knew that even just going for a walk around my neighborhood would be good and would relax things a little bit But it um you know it that period of two three kind of four months of pretty bad anxiety was pretty brutal Whereas I think now having been there a few times I see it coming I'm like Ah I I I you know get that spidey sense It's like Ah I think the things might be getting a little bit overwhelming I should probably do something about that now And you know pulling back from stuff or whether that's you know like s I think the thing with juggling four jobs is that sometimes multiple ones get busy at the same time and it's just the inevitability of it And it's like Okay so well that's coming so maybe I'll do less of this around that time If it's just a short little period it's like How do I look after myself for those two weeks so that I come out of it well Um and realizing that I can't do it all and I don't need to do it all you know the first couple of times I went to Kendal Mountain Festival I came back from that like so drained by it And then li the last time I went I was like I've totally worked out how to do Kendal It's like in the afternoon I just go back to where I'm staying and have a cup of tea for a few hours and read my book And then I come out again And it's like I came out the last Kendal I was like Oh it's fine Like okay so I didn't go to everything I didn't see everybody But you can't you can't
Rhona: No.
Steph: And finding the peace in that and understanding how my brain works a bit more And even though I'm quite an extrovert and like social situations actually I really really need time on my own to like Like I'm an i introverted extrovert maybe Like you know that time to kind of recuperate and recharge and maybe it's age and maybe it's I don't know
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: wiser
Rhona: It's interesting you say as well about the combination of being a bit introverted and extroverted, 'cause I think the more people I speak to,
Steph: cause I think the
Rhona: and we talk about
Steph: to
Rhona: You know, s- our social batteries and, um, kind of that draining and stuff. I meet very few people who are all one or the other. Um,
Steph: who
Rhona: and actually we all seem to be a little bit of combination, and most people I speak to say they need some time on their own.
Think probably your colleague Emily is the only person who is like, "Nope, I just want people all the time. Give me people every second." And she might... She's, you know, s-
Steph: her She like
Rhona: she's a very unique human being
Steph: she's
Rhona: actually I think most people now are s- I, I've talked to are saying even the ones who I thought would say that they're, they never get drained by others even say they need
Steph: get
Rhona: to actively choose themselves sometimes.
Steph: Yeah I mean I think when I look back on myself in my 20s and early 30s I do just feel I was skating from almost burnout to almost burnout But a huge amount of my identity was tied up in being someone who did these things or did that thing and was the organizer of this and the organizer of that And I think maybe as I've just been more comfortable with myself and needed less uh external approval perhaps I'm okay with the fact that sometimes I just sit at home and read a book or you know like pootle about It doesn't Yeah my identity's not tied up in that any longer And I think I've always been some I've always been a bit of an organizer and a starter of things before Everybody Outdoors I um ran some stuff in my 30s um with a friend kind of getting people out to do like loads of fun stuff and it was amazing We did all this really cool stuff We went to festivals We ran these events Um I was doing weird like pervasive art projects with origami cranes and I was organizing days where people go out and give biscuits out on the streets and it was all of this stuff And I mean sometimes I look back and I'm like Oh man I'm not s you know I'm not as much fun as I used to be Um but then I'm like Oh but my brain is a lot happier and a lot and it's not constantly in a slight fight or flight jumping from one thing to the next to avoid being still I think like discovering that peace and that stillness and discovering how to be still um
Rhona: Yeah, it's funny that, isn't it?
It's interesting as well that you mentioned that about the identity thing because
mentioned
suspect that-
thing
Everybody in your life probably still sees you as a doer
People
and as a very busy person, and as a p- person who's always, like, pushing and achieving and, and doing different things and stuff.
And, and you think that you've slowed down, but I'm sure nobody,
that you've slowed down but
probably nobody's opinion of you has changed at all.
of you has
and and it
and, it's funny how we feel like people won't see us as that identity unless we're doing it at an extreme level. Like that...
we're doing
But
it at
I- I'm sure you've got lots of friends who
sure
don't do something at an extreme level, but you would still say they are, I don't know, funny.
They might not be the funniest person you know, but you still call them funny.
Steph: you know
Rhona: you know
And, and yet, so we like s- think that, "Oh,
so we
my friends won't think that I'm a doer unless I'm always doing,"
will think that I'm
or whatever it is in our brains that they tells us. But you, if you j- if you're still, you're a doer if you're a doer.
You don't have to d- be doing it all the time.
Steph: still you're a doer if you're a doer You don't have to keep doing it all the time Yeah Yeah totally And it's interesting what you were saying earlier about how you know like I'm someone who sits at a computer all day and so like my rest is often
Rhona: Mm
Steph: But like my partner does a really physical job like he's a cook and he like they feed a couple of thousand kids a day in the kitchen that he in So like he's on his feet all day and he cycles like to and from where he works and he has really early starts and then like yeah it gets to h the weekend and like he
Rhona: Yeah. Mm, that
Steph: uh you know it definitely took us a little bit of time to work out how to navigate that together
Rhona: 'cause you've got-
Steph: because I'd get to the I'd get to the weekend yeah and I'd be like Oh let's go hiking and he'd be like sit on the sofa And it's just
Rhona: Yeah, and the thing is, I think there you also have to accept that
Steph: is I
Rhona: you might not be able to do everything together because, again, but then, and, and you being somebody who's, who's happy and gains a lot from doing it on your own, it's convenient for that.
Steph: do things alone again that might work for that Yeah Yeah I think it's it's quite lucky and fortuitous cause I think you know I could see how it would be a point of tension for other people But the fact that I actively want to do it on my own and I'm you know I'm lucky I've got um I'm quite I'm quite picky about who I go walking with I think because I love walking on my own so much and I view I view walking on my own as like hanging out with myself Um you know that's kind of what I see solitude as is like you know spending time with yourself and I enjoy that so much that actually if I'm gonna walk with someone else I I want to really walk with them not just be like Oh I just need someone to go walking with It's I'd rather go on my own than go with someone I you know Yeah cause it's a very For me I still really enjoy going walking with other people but it's a very
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: I don't get the
Rhona: It's interesting that, isn't it? There's definitely differences there.
Steph: definitely
Rhona: I'm quite like you. I think I would rather
Steph: quite
Rhona: do most activities on my own or with really good company. Um, I don't think I'm that fussed about having, like, company for the sake of company. But I do know people who they need the company to do the thing,
leave the company to do the
and it doesn't matter.
The quality of the company is not
matter the quality of
it's not it's not important They just
like it's not it's not
don't feel comfortable doing it on their own for whatever reason.
Steph: it for whatever reason It's it's like until we started Everybody Outdoors I'd never been
Rhona: Mm
Steph: group other than like you know a friend's birthday you know weekend away where we go for a little hike or anything But I'd never deliberately walked in a group Um and it's something I like I like doing occasionally you know So like we I help run the Everybody Outdoors courses and some of the social weekends away and stuff but I don't want to regularly walk with a walking
Rhona: That's interesting. And yet you started a thing that is, like, quite a, a big fe- feature of it is group walks.
Steph: of it
Rhona: So what,
what
what, made you do that? Instead of being like, "I'm starting a thing where we all walk on our own,
Steph: a thing where
Rhona: but we just do it,
Steph: person comes
Rhona: other about it." I don't know if, like...
Steph: it Well so when we started Everybody Outdoors we started um mostly looking at the clothing and kit which is something that I think we'd
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: of struggled with And um at the same time I met a mountain leader I'd wanted to do a navigation course and felt too anxious to sign up to one and somebody introduced me to um called Kat who runs uh who's a mountain leader based out of North Wales And so we decided to run a course for plus-size people like slightly alongside Everybody Outdoors not as part of that at the moment Um and it was great and it was just like to be able to And I think by the time we actually ran the course I kind of had the skills I needed but to be able to open that door for
Rhona: Mm
Steph: was the kind of thing for me It was like I'd had friends and opportunities along the way but realizing that a lot of people didn't a lot of plus-size people didn't Um and then the walking groups kind of spun out of that So it was like I wasn't really setting them up for me I was setting them up for the community and realizing that a lot of people in the community needed those spaces to do the activities Um and it's a bit like maybe how I feel about more about cycling that like I'm I think over time I've got quite confident with hiking I'm quite confident about taking up space and advocating for myself and knowing what I need and I can you know like that kind of stuff But you put me in a cycling community and I'm just like this like anxious person in the corner who feels like she doesn't belong Um and so actually I think that's why you know I'm actually more drawn to some of the like gentler uh cycling community spaces because of being able to connect with other people who yeah who feel similarly doesn't mean I can't do it on my own but it yeah it's can actually be really good for my
Rhona: Yes. Yeah. And
Steph: Yes
Rhona: yeah, I think you, you learn things about yourself in both ways 'cause sometimes you realize that you had this idea that you couldn't keep up, or you wouldn't be able to be part of it, or you don't...
Steph: but
Rhona: You're worse than everybody else. And then you go and you're like, "Oh,
than everybody
that actually, that's not true," and that's great.
Steph: I wasn't sure
Rhona: but there's also an interesting part in there that I think as well is a little bit more a, of a, a kinda female brain type thing.
Steph: kind
Rhona: won't be true for everybody. But, um, yeah, one of my friends has done lots of, like, outdoors research and women in the outdoor industry research,
Steph: and
Rhona: and she had... One of the things she'd, like, found through it was that
of the
people,
about
women will kinda wait, they wait till the point that they're sure they can do something.
point that
And even if that is literally, like,
Steph: And Even
Rhona: go to a group walking thing, they might tr- you know, train or, like, practice and build up until the point they can definitely go to this group walk. Even if the point of the group walk is, like, an intro walk.
Steph: of the group walk is like an intro
Rhona: and and I've definitely
seen that reflected in loads of the work I've done with- in the outdoors,
Steph: reflected loads
Rhona: that we have to
Steph: Um
Rhona: be sure we can...
And, e- even in, like, racing stuff, it's, it's reflected because women are more likely to finish the things they enter
to
than men are.
things they enter
but I do think it... I think now
I do
there's all these oth- spaces that are trying to stop that from happening so that if you do want to do s- stuff with people,
want to do
or c- community is what you're looking for, you don't have to...
You can just turn up the f- s- straightaway. You don't need to have trained yourself up before you
turn
up.
Steph: Up before you turn up Yeah I mean I think back to when I started doing multi-day walks and the first one I did was like a four-day walk and it's like I you know was training to do like half the distance over two days And it's like I've got other friends who are like I'm gonna do a multi-day walk I've never really walked more than like 10 miles and I'm gonna go off and walk like 60 miles in four days It'll be fine And it was just like you know I was training with a fully loaded backpack I was it's just it is that thing isn't it
Rhona: Yeah, but actually we should be more confident in ourselves and kind of, I think, a lot of these communities are trying to prove that to us,
communities
sure that's something that comes in, in Everybody Outdoors. I'm sure
some women have
you want the people who come to your walks to feel like they deserve to be there, and they have e- you know, what they need to be there and everything.
They don't need...
Steph: every right to be there Yeah And I I'm a big advocate of like what what information you put out as well in advance to help people make a decision about whether that's a
Rhona: Mm
Steph: I mean I wrote quite an angry uh blog post about 10 ways that cycling groups could be more inclusive of people But a lot of it was about like what information do you put out in advance Don't just say like We're cycling 50 kilometers It's like and what on earth is party pace It's like my party is slower than your party Like
Rhona: know. It's difficult, isn't
Steph: But like really
Rhona: it?
Steph: Really clear is like about like how are groups held together What kind of hills are they are they steep hills Are they short hills Are they long hills Like what's the etiquette of the hill Like all of these things and that's something we've put
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: thought into Because a lot of those the reasons people think they can't do these things actually when they realize that other
Rhona: Yeah, 100%. And that information thing is, is so true because some,
you
know, there are people out there who advertise things that are not true. You know, I have
things
spoken to so many people who turned up to a no drop ride and got dropped.
Steph: up to a
Rhona: you know
and it's like, well, don't call it that. It's that simple.
Steph: call
Rhona: Just don't call it that.
And then the opposite of like, you know, sometimes you don't wanna put too much information. I mean, I, yeah, I used to run a cycling group and like I, yeah, this, the amount of information and the right information and the words is so difficult.
Steph: information the words
Rhona: because whatever you put, it's gonna...
Steph: Um because
Rhona: There's still gonna be somebody who isn't sure about that.
Steph: be somebody who
Rhona: like you know
you don't wanna put... I'll, I like to, to veer away from putting like s- average speeds, 'cause I think that just seeing a speed written down
that
kinda makes it look like, ooh,
up
if they're expecting that. Do you know, like it's an expectation or something? But then,
Steph: expectation or something
Rhona: you know uh
but then if you don't put like a re-
but then if
some people would then message and be like,
some people
"Well, I ride at this speed.
Can I come?" And I'd be like, "Yes, everybody can come." Like, the but, uh, you know, so it'd be like, ah.
Steph: you know so it'd
Rhona: Well...
Steph: be like Ah Yeah Yeah It's it's really hard but like I There was a a ride I went on before Christmas that you know it was self-led and someone was like I you know in in our mentoring group WhatsApp I'd um I'd said Oh you know me and my my mentor we're gonna cycle together on this If anyone wants to join us like it's a really gentle pace And someone was like Oh you don't have to worry about like organizing It'll be fine Just turn up It'll be fine And I was like It's fine until it's not fine but like actually for me to have someone who I know is gonna cycle with me and I know is going to wait for me and whatever And actually somebody else turned up and said I came because I saw your message And we were probably the last group out of the whole cycling you know of the whole day to kind of come in But it was kind of nice cause we actually scooped up some other riders along the way You know there was a group of maybe six of us who stuck together at the beginning and they During the day we kind of scooped up a few other people who'd yeah fallen off the back of other groups And for me it's mostly about knowing that yeah that someone's got my back that someone's waiting with me and they've signed up for that and they know what they're getting They know they're gonna get someone who's gonna walk up that hill not cycle up it and gonna wanna wait for a moment at the top to get their breath back and yeah Um but yeah It's it's it's really
Rhona: Oh,
Steph: and it's
Rhona: yeah.
Steph: Um and I definitely don't think we've always got it right with everybody outdoors but it's it's something I'm kind of quite
Rhona: Yeah
Steph: Um because it it yeah it was a huge It probably was a huge part of how I got into hiking was hiking on my own because I was too anxious about
Rhona: Mm-hmm.
Steph: pace other groups Um and then I discovered I love doing it on my own And I think there's a lot of people who don't do things on their own
Rhona: Mm-hmm
Steph: reasons and it's like I'm quite interested into why I don't struggle with those things I'm quite good at navigation which I think helps Um like I don't struggle with that
Rhona: I think that's a big barrier for people in the outdoors to begin with,
People in the
just that idea, that, like,
navigation
thi- idea of being somewhere and not having any idea how to get out of the situation. Um, and that is... You know, people call mountain rescue for that. You know, one of my friends, she does mountain rescue, and loads of her call-outs are just like, "I got myself to this place, and I have no idea how to get back out."
You know?
And you're just like And you know
It's not the person's fault. Okay, to be fair, they probably shouldn't have gone into the mountains did they not know how to navigate. But, like,
Steph: without navigation Yeah
Rhona: they didn't know that was what was gonna happen and stuff, and they probably didn't have the opportunities to learn.
It's difficult. It's so tricky, isn't it?
Steph: It's difficult Uh I've definitely had a few moments where I was like followed what I thought was the path and then got to a point and I'm like Oh and now I'm like like freeze like scrambling up this hillside cause that
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: be the path or whatever I mean yeah I've I I am pretty good with navigation and
Rhona: How did
Steph: uh like I've done quite a
you
of
learn
work on improving my navigation
Rhona: to
Steph: You know like I try to be really safe with it Um
Rhona: navigate?
Steph: Do you know what I don't know I think I just like maps make sense to me So like my my base level of navigation like
Rhona: Hmm
Steph: me how to read a map I just like an OS map makes sense to me which is quite useful And like when I started cycling I just started using Komoot and I found that really easy And um but then through Everybody Outdoors I'd done like hill skills and navigation proper training And the first time I learned to use a compass I was like This is magic This is amazing everyone should know about this I just took a bearing and now it's on the map and now I look ahead and it's there It's like it do I I think compasses are magic Um and learning that confidence and learning I think learning how to work out if something's for me or not has also given me a lot more cause it probably is something that I was I I did things below my ability for a while probably because I wasn't sure But now the more I've learned like learning to read a route to consider like the weather learning to look at the amount of elevation all of these other things and knowing myself and my body better and what its capability is and what I enjoy has ma has opened up things Um some things that I guess I wouldn't have done
Rhona: Yeah, okay. And so you said when you first started walking, you were getting like clippings out of a walking,
clippings out of a walking
but what was your,
Um
you know, what was your relationship with activity and the outdoors before that,
activity and the
was it, was that the first ever introduction to moving your body or were you already, you had other, had previously done other things?
Steph: Or you already had other have previously done other things So before I moved in before I went to Canada I did uh I'd go on occasional walks with friends and that kind of thing but not hugely I wasn't hugely into the outdoors and then I lived pretty rurally in Canada and ironically it wasn't until just before I left Canada that I got into hiking Um I was So I was farming out there so I was like I guess I was reasonably fit did quite a lot of manual labor But just before I left my friend Rosemary persuaded me to go for like an overnight hike up into the mountains and I was like I can't do that And she's like You can totally do that Like she's like I did I knew her really well She's like I've done this hike I know what it's like I know you I know your body You can borrow all my partner's kit And we went and we did this hike up into the Valhalla Mountains and it was just like We've got this brilliant picture of me at the top of the mountain just like Aah Um just like all you can see behind me is mountains And I think that was the moment at which I was like I'd always thought I couldn't do it because of my having a larger body I thought that wasn't for me And then it was suddenly like oh my bo God my body can do this That's amazing Like my body can do these things that I didn't know my body could do and I think that was that was like a real turning point And so it was like I moved back to the UK shortly after that and then my sister gave me all the clippings Um but yeah it was it was literally that one moment that one trip that like changed
Rhona: And had that idea of like, "Oh, I don't think that my body or me can do this," had that stopped you from trying other things before?
Steph: Oh I don't think that my body or me can do this had that stopped you from trying other things before Oh God yeah Like and I think it's you know and not necessarily in a particularly like Oh maybe I'd like to try climbing and this big voice being like No you can't do that It was just not even considering
Rhona: didn't even cross your mind that it would be for you.
Steph: and the fear of failure and just like not seeing any representation or role models
Rhona: Mm
Steph: I think was a huge thing for me And like a huge motivation around starting Everybody Outdoors was just to show people doing stuff um people realize all the stuff their body is actually capable of cause I think that's a huge thing Um you know we definitely What we see in the outdoors media is a certain a certain subset And then sometimes you're just on a hill and you're like Oh there's
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: different shapes and sizes on these hills Um but trying to find a waterproof jacket in my size was
Rhona: Yeah, it's mental actually, isn't it? 'Cause if you actually go out into the real world and do things, you realize that that's not what the, that's not what's being stocked to the shop.
Steph: But then it's it's really interesting So like you know when I went to Norway I did this two weeks on my own and I wore supermarket Marks Spencer's tops I had a decent rucksack but I had like really badly f fitting like men's uh North Face waterproofs I had a Rab uh sleeping bag that barely did up like really hard to do And it's like so now you know things have shifted a little bit I'm a size 20 I've now got some outdoors gear in my size and people treat me really differently If I turn up in like a Rab Gore-Tex jacket uh you know like looking a little bit more kitted out uh people used to treat me like a beginner like I didn't know what I was doing like I was being irresponsible Especially on my own because I was on my own People would just be like What you're doing that And it's like Yeah Like I went up Merrick in southern Scotland and um this guy at the bottom you know bottom of the trail and he's like Oh where are you going I was like I'm going up Merrick And he was like Really And he just literally looked me up and down And I was like no I'm going up the same mountain as you
Rhona: know.
Steph: it And I don't know if it's cause I was on my own I don't know if it's cause I was what I was wearing but it just that kind of instant Oh she
and I think I think I hit a peak I went to do a hike when I was in New Zealand Um and it was like a 10K 12K hike and it was flat think I had 11 people being like Well done you Like you know You're so inspiring And I was like I've just literally like It's not even a hard hike guys Come
Rhona: Oh, it's so difficult as well 'cause, like, I feel like that's them trying to, like, in their weird warped way, they're trying to be nice and it's like, but how do they not realize that
that is
such a
Steph: do they not
Rhona: patronizing thing to
Steph: And I I you know when you try to explain to someone who's never experienced it it's really difficult But it it's the amount it happens It's like if you get one comment like that you're like Okay that's fine But like literally the 11th person that day it's like
Rhona: Yeah
Steph: this is really like this is really grating Cause what this is showing is your What I'm actually hearing when you're saying that is Oh I didn't think that like someone in your body could do
Rhona: Oh, and I bet when you've told that story to some people they've gone, but they've been like, "Well, they meant well." And like
Steph: like
Rhona: were... Or, you know, like, or, or they say like, "Oh, well it's not everybody or whatever." But like you say, if it's 11 people in a day, you can't argue with that.
Steph: that Yeah yeah And also like then you have lovely interactions with people It's like I did um I did a hike up uh around Mount Cook and um up t up to this hut and it was it was a pretty brutal ascent and it was you know like first of all there was like I don't know how many hours of climbing up stairs So like steps which are my like least favorite thing and then this really steep path and I just But I had such a beautiful interaction with these two guys Um like young guys with massive packs on And I just like was just it was so nice cause it was like it was a
Rhona: I
Steph: interaction It was like it wasn't about me being plus size or anything I think we were just all mo all having a bit of a kind of common moan and it was like normal things to say to someone when you see them on a trail are Are you having a nice day Beautiful day for it Like
Rhona: know.
Steph: like all of these things It's like
Rhona: Is that the, like the red hut that's like, looks across onto Mount Cook?
Steph: looks across onto Mount Cook
Rhona: Hut, is it, or something?
Steph: it called Mueller
Rhona: Yeah. I, I know the steps you mean. I've been up there.
Steph: I I know the steps you're
Rhona: Horrible.
Steph: about Going up was okay but coming down oh my God Cause you're like you've got really tired legs by that point and then the last thing you've got to do is walk down like 2,000 steps and it's just like Yeah
Rhona: Yeah. Yeah, I totally... And I, um, did that with my brother who happens to be a lot fitter than I am and has no sympathy for my s-
Steph: did that
Rhona: pace, so
Steph: who had
Rhona: pretty... Think I, I think I can just remember being left behind.
Steph: think I can Yeah I I mean the thing is one thing that's about being okay with doing things on my own though is like you know I went to New Zealand for six weeks on my own and it was partly a work trip but I just got to do loads of cool stuff I mean I wasn't held back from doing those things because I was on my own It was like still went and did loads of really cool hikes and I camped on my own in loads of places and it just didn't bother me And I think But I also I also think it's something that it's it's something I kind of have to practice It's like actually if I don't do it for a while it takes me longer to
Rhona: Mm-hmm
Steph: into it But the more I do it and that's something I really have to yeah have to view as as a
Rhona: a definite thing. Um, when I try to, like, build up my rides to be a little bit longer, the first time I go for, like, two-hour ride on my own, I'm like, it
Steph: two-hour
Rhona: like it lasted forever, and I felt like I was, like, ready to come back and talk to people. But then somehow I can get to the point where I can do all day
Steph: I
Rhona: and it doesn't feel weird, and it goes by just as fast as that t- first two-hour one.
It's, like, so weird how our br-
Steph: Yeah
Rhona: don't know what it is that makes that happen. It's really interesting though.
Steph: Interesting Yeah I think we just sometimes we expect things to always be
Rhona: Yeah.
Steph: And actually some things are worth at Some things like it's worth sitting in the
Rhona: Mm-hmm
Steph: of And like solitude for me has been that like I mean the 10-day silent meditation I did was not a
Rhona: I
mean, that is mind-blowing. I, I know, don't know how anybody does those.
I
Steph: Like part of me
Rhona: I'm kind
of intrigued
Like, part of me is like I just want to do it to see what it's like, and the other part of me is like never,
Steph: of me is like I mean it really it genuinely changed my life because I think there is nowhere there
Rhona: Mm Mm
Steph: hide yourself And I do think it me back to a place of of real like peace with myself and who I am and what I can and can't can't change acceptance about things But it was
Rhona: Yeah, I bet.
I feel like we all ha- have a little bit of a Pandora's box though,
Steph: we
Rhona: and I, and I don't know if, if, if, you know, what's in yours because I'm pretty sure we all have some stuff that we're just like we don't wanna really face.
Steph: Yeah
Rhona: And I think that,
that
what scares me about that 10 days is
Steph: scares
Rhona: box is surely gonna open.
Steph: Yeah I think I just like I I met my anxiety pretty face on Like I had quite an anxious time in that I think my body was doing really crazy things supposed to do this body scanning me meditation and I was like getting these shooting like lightning bolts down my arms and I was like So this is new Like I don't know almost like you know you were supposed to gently scan your body and my laser eyes were just like frazzling my body Um but there was no You know you can't it was like by being forced to stay in that and sit through that and explore that rather than just like
Rhona: Yes.
Steph: Like there was something in that It's like I'm not hurting my body by meditating
Rhona: No.
Steph: it's But it was that process by which I I kind of had to deal yeah
Rhona: That's so good for you
Steph: I I get quite
Rhona: though. Like, your brain-body connection and sort of your regulation of your o- autonomic nervous system and stuff are probably really, really good now. Like, I think it's pro-
you know and
and, I think
think it's
this is-
And I
There is so much of our physical health is connected to what's going on in our heads.
And when you, like, s- when scenario, when somebody describes a scenario like that, it's so obvious.
a
It's,
you know
like you said, like you were basically just doing things, thinking, and you're just doing things in your head, and you've experienced physical symptoms because of it.
physical
and people really don't like that idea.
You know, there are lo- lots of times, I think, when...
are l lots of
There are lots of times when people have wrongly been told that something could be coming from their head, and it was actually something physical, and that therefore makes that, like, a taboo thing now sometimes because
thing
nobody wants to be dismissed.
nobody
But it is, I think, it's also really important for us to have an awareness that the two are connected.
Steph: awareness that the two are connected And it's not saying that you're not experiencing something either It's just saying that like you know the o origins of that
Rhona: Mm-hmm
Steph: different And I you know I'm someone who has health anxiety as well and so I
Rhona: Oh, yeah, so you see both sides of that.
Steph: like really Yeah I see both sides of that and it's you know like I've had times where I've really like like I was experiencing something and then I went for CBT about it because it was like so I was getting such weird symptoms And then like through that process it was just like oh no actually it's just cause I'm like you know it turns out if I stare with m stare at my foot with my brain I feel loads of things in it and actually maybe there's nothing wrong with my foot And it's you know something I struggled with with my back Like it hurt it hurt my back pretty badly but part of that recovery has been a mental battle and not like every time something I feel something in my back I'm like Oh God is it gonna you know is it gonna go
Rhona: a really common issue with pain, espe- and long-term pain, unfortunately.
Steph: And it's been really interesting but I think I do Again so I my back actually hurt started hurting when I was hiking and so it took like it hiking became a bit of this thing that was like a fear thing for me to start doing again Um and I went for this hike before Christmas so I was like it was the first time I think first time I'd been on a hike on my own since I hurt my back And I deliberately went to a place I knew really well and it was a pretty windy day and I'd made a judgment call I was like It's windy but not too windy It's the perfect amount of wind because I spent my whole brain power to not get blown off a ridge and therefore I didn't spend all of my brain power thinking about my back And it was great and I had a lovely time and it just like that positive experience just like released
Rhona: Yeah, that, that's good.
Steph: um
Rhona: It's so true, though. I mean, load,
It's so true
basically, like,
everybody
who's had an exercise-related injury or injury, you know, will, will understand that for sure. When you first go back and you feel, like, a twinge, you're just like,
go back and you
it's
it's so hard not to become into a cycle of fear, basically, that, that, that, you know, snowballs quite quickly because
cycle
it come back and make it worse.
want something to come
yeah, it's, uh... Well, well done for getting through that. I mean, I can't imagine it was that easy
Steph: that No but it's it's it's one of those things that like having it back and going like I went on South Wales on my own maybe about a month ago and I was just walking across the hillside and it was just like this really deep peace And I was like Ah like I just I've missed that I've missed that And I know I've had all these other things that I've kind of brought in to like help me chill but it is just something really really soothing about it And I think I just think a lot of people are quite afraid of solitude um and probably because they
Rhona: yes. Yeah, thank you so much for
Steph: Thank you
Rhona: giving us a clear perspective on the fact that they are two different things.
Steph: the Yeah But I think a lot of people are Oh I couldn't do that You know I say I would go off on my own hiking for five or days or whatever people are like Oh I couldn't do that And it's like yeah I I'm really interested in what stops people and what makes people think they couldn't do it cause I probably would've said the same thing like you know 15 years
Rhona: Yeah, yeah.
Steph: actually
Rhona: it's, it's a very complex one that, isn't it? 'Cause, like,
Steph: it's a very complex
Rhona: there's a lot of scaremongering out there, so I think some people are just, like, scared of the world,
Steph: some people are
Rhona: you know
And they're just scared of
know
the unknowns that they might face on their own and things like that.
might
And some people, I think, are scared of what
like that Some
time with themselves will mean, like, mean.
But
Steph: I
Rhona: yeah, it is interesting, and I hope that maybe some people will have listened and might feel a bit inspired to go and spend some time with themselves out of choice and discover, you
know the
joys of that and how good it could be to
of
let their brains rest for a little bit.
Steph: brain rest for a little bit Yeah I mean hang out with yourself you're great It's Like
Rhona: Yeah, maybe that's part of it, though. Like, how many people actually think they're great,
Steph: how many people
Rhona: You know
Maybe a lot of people... You know, think there's something in that too. You know,
Steph: there's
Rhona: not many of us think that we are actually good company,
Steph: we are actually
Rhona: and so maybe we, we, we just need to all love ourselves a bit more.
Steph: Yeah. Do
Rhona: Oh, Steph, well, that I think is a great place to round off our, our episode. I mean,
Steph: off
Rhona: I really enjoyed talking to you, and I l- I really love this whole concept of solitude and the way that you framed it.
of solitude
and I think I, I think I really buy into the idea,
I
and I
into the
did, but I don't think that I had thought of an, as nice a way to put it.
um, as
feel like I can sell it better now.
Steph: And I think I'm going to sell it better now. There we go. It turns out spending a lot of time on your own gives you a lot of time to think about what it means to be on your own.
Rhona: Oh, well, thank you so much for your time.
Steph: you so much for your time. Oh, thanks for
Rhona: Oh, great.
I really feel my chat with Steph has changed the way I look at who I choose to share my adventures with, and I really buy into the idea that it can be really good to choose your own company. I loved hearing about her journey through walking, cycling, juggling a complicated career, and managing injuries.
Another wonderful guest. To keep up to date with all things Rest Days, find us @restdayscommunity on Instagram or restdayscommunity.com. See you next week