Lumes Transcript

Hello. This week on the Rest Days community podcast, we talk to the one and only Lumes. This has got to be one of the most fun recordings I've done, and yet it's still full of brilliant wisdom. I'm waiting for the Looms TED Talk. She tells us how she'd love to do some speaking gigs, and I so hope this happens.

We talk about all areas of life through the story of her journey in cycling. It took Lumes three years to go from not cycling to riding the entire Tour de France Femmes route. As you may imagine, a few life lessons were learnt along the way, and we hear all about them. Lumes makes joyous and relatable content on Instagram, and her sense of humor shines through in this episode.

I know you're going to enjoy this one, so sit back, turn the car speakers up, or pop your dog walking shoes on and enjoy 

Rhona: welcome Lumes to the Rest Day Community podcast. Thank you so much for being here and giving up your time. I am really excited to dive in. I mean, we've never met and we actually have basically not spoken to each other at all apart from a couple of minutes right now. So I, we're gonna get to know each other really well, hopefully in the next hour, and hopefully uncover some fantastic stories, all about cycling and rest and life. so yeah, thank you so much for being here.

Lumes: Thank you for having me. This is so exciting. When, uh, when I got your message I was like, it's the perfect intersection of the everything the rest of these community stands for. So I'm super excited to get to have a chance to chat about

Rhona: good.

Lumes: that good stuff.

Rhona: Yeah, it's hard to know whether, people are interested in, in talking about stuff or whether they would be interested in actually having a further chat. But what you put out into the world really seems to kind of fit with the vibe that I'm going for. Um, firstly, just your Instagram is fantastic and, you know, every, all, everything you put out really brightens my day and gives me a good chuckle actually.

Lumes: Thank you. So

Rhona: what, what kind of motivated you to start putting stuff out there?

Lumes: I just, when I first started riding all of the content that I was seeing just felt really serious. People who I was coming across in the cycling world were just taking it very seriously. And of course, there's nothing wrong with taking things seriously, but I felt really out of place and I felt like just a nerd, an absolute nerd trying to navigate her way around this new sport that she discovered.

And things didn't make sense, but it didn't feel like I could be quite open and public about the things that weren't making sense to me. So it took a little while, but eventually I got to a stage where I was tired of feeling like keeping it all to myself and keeping it in. I really just wanted to make it loud and put it all out there and just see what came back to me and see if I could find my people.

And if I was feeling that way, I knew somebody else would be feeling a lot of what I was feeling and everything. It just, it. The sport itself. You know, we're wearing very tight clothes and we're just going and riding around, uh, for hours and hours and ending up nowhere. And then, you know, it was just, it's like, it just felt very silly and I loved it so much.

And I wanted anyone who was feeling the way that I was feeling, I wanted them to feel seen, and I just wanna all like, laugh at ourselves as part of this incredible sport that we love to do. So, yeah, it just, it was this need for connection and a need to just, uh, not, not take it so seriously and make me feel better about being a nerd.

Rhona: Oh, I love that. I love the, the bit you said about, you know, if you were feeling that then there was probably other people out there feeling it too and has putting yourself out there, but has that now brought people to you? Do you feel like you've got more of a community and, and better connection with people now?

Lumes: A million percent. It just, it's, and it's only really recently that I've started to feel like I could really truly be myself. It, there was a lot of pressure that I put on myself initially to be like, if I'm gonna put anything out there, I want it to be helpful and useful. It didn't feel like it would be enough to just make people laugh or try to make people laugh.

So recently I've been really focusing more on being more, being more myself, and really just trying to find the humor in learning how to fit into this space and hopefully encouraging other people to. Embrace all elements of themselves and bring that into the sport as well, so that we can just all have a really good time.

And I've found that, yes, it has attracted the, the right type of people are drawn to the, this, the videos that I put out it and everything I put out has made me laugh already before I even put it out. It, it cracks me up. So if it cracks me up and I'm giggling to myself alone in my flat, then I put it out into the world and it's, it's been a really interesting experience to see what resonates with people and, and what doesn't resonate.

My favorite videos don't really resonate as much as I think that they will. The, the harder I laugh, the less it resonates with other people so far. But again, we can't put stuff out there just, you know, for the, for the reaction. We just have to put things out that feel good. So it's, yeah.

Rhona: I definitely think that's the truth. You know, put it out 'cause it feels good

lumes: Yeah.

Rhona: think you're hitting the, the nail on the head because, um, cycling as a sport has its history and its reputation are of just this super serious and you have to wear the right thing and your socks have to be white, which doesn't make any sense.

Why would they be white? Um, you know, like, why, why can't we just mess around on bikes and have some fun and eat some cake?

lumes: Yeah, there were no rules. You know, I, I mean, I, I didn't really ride bikes when I was younger. I really only started riding bikes properly a few years ago, 2020s when I, when I picked up, when I started riding bikes. And in that time, I've done an obscene amount with my bike, but. Before that, you know, when, when everybody was riding bikes and playing, I'm sure there weren't any rules besides just meet after school at this point and then go ride around.

But again, I'm basing that on what I've seen in movies. But I would imagine that the kids don't have these rules. Right. And it's, so I think the, the type of people that are drawn to cycling or historically have been drawn to cycling 'cause things have gotten more diverse. Now the besides of people that have been historically drawn to cycling have just taken themselves very, very seriously and are being really strict around what's allowed and what's not allowed.

And once you start to bring in and diversify that space, you start to realize that there's so many other ways in which you can take part in the sport. And a lot of the things that are just foregone conclusions are actually pretty hilarious scenarios that we can have a lot of fun with. And also, who doesn't wanna laugh going up a hill?

It's just, it's,

Rhona: better, right?

lumes: it's so much better. It releases the endorphins, you knows oxygen. Yes, it does make it harder to breathe, but you feel better when you get to the top.

Rhona: Yeah. Worthwhile. Exactly. And I think it's so important that more people are being seen to do things for fun instead of just us always presenting this image of like, sport is only for athletes, but it's not like, you know, we all, oh, at the end of the day, whether we want to or not, we all have to do a bit of exercise 'cause our bodies need it. So if we can make it fun, it's just so much better. And the more people out there seem to be doing that, the, the easier it is for other people to take it up and have a try it.

lumes: Yeah, and like understanding as well that you can create your own rules for yourself so that if there's elements, if, if you do like the white socks for instance, or you know, you do like certain aspects of the, the rules, you can embrace those and make them your own. But you can decide what your own rules are for yourself and how you wanna show up.

You know, an example that I, I talk about sometimes is the fact that none of the brands I wear match. And that's blasphemy to certain people. When I'm out and apart in the world, they look at me like I'm crazy, but realistically I'll like this piece from this brand and this piece from that brand. Like my only rule is that the colors need to make sense together.

They need to go in some way. That's my rule, right? But I would never impose that on anybody else. But if I see that your colors are really going together, I might think, oh, you know, I would've paired that differently. But it's just because it's my rule doesn't mean it has to be your rule.

Rhona: No. Exactly. Yeah. And. mean, I wanna hear all about the last five years of cycling and your journey, but what were your hobbies before cycling? Was, it was, did you do anything similar before

lumes: No, no. All through school I was super active. I was in all the sports. I played basketball, tennis, uh, football or soccer. What else did I play? I played, oh, I played musical instruments as well up until I hit puberty and discovered, uh, discovered that boys were a thing. And all of a sudden some of those hobbies did go by the wayside.

And all the sports I used to play stopped it when I went to uni. So I, as a kid, I was pretty active, but for most of my twenties and a large the lion share of my thirties, I was not at all, uh, particularly active. And the hobbies that I had before were, I was really into photography. I did a lot of film photography.

I still do a lot of, um, street photography, portraiture, that kind of thing. Uh, I once had a YouTube channel where I would talk about makeup and, you know, girly things and, and that, and had that for a very brief period of time. So I've always been really creative and always tried to. Create things, which is another reason why I'm obsessed with color.

It, it comes from that background of, you know, this, my eyes are drawn to certain shapes and shades and I, I love to just play around with, yeah, play around with color, play around with my, my very, very mid artistic endeavors that I have done previously. So yeah, past hobbies, very much not physical in any sort of way.

I'd go on a photo walk, for instance, and, you know, walk around with other people who were also camera nerds and who would take photos. But that's as far as, that was the extent of my sporting. And so in 2020 I picked up a bike. I thought the world was ending. It was during the first, the second lockdown. I have to say before that I, maybe, I, I technically knew how to balance on a bike, but I, I would always end.

I didn't really know how to ride a bike until 2020, so it. Started, uh, got my hands on an e-bike. I thought again, world is ending. Uh, we're no longer gonna be able to use public transport. Those days are over of close proximity with humans. I need a skill that I can use in the apocalypse. So I get led into, led into the, the camps when we're, I need a useful skill.

No.

Rhona: the person say they took up cycling for that reason. That is amazing.

lumes: Well, I was thinking about like, who's gonna want like a project manager in when we're all, you know, trying to figure out how to survive thecal. No one's gonna want that. Nobody needs another, another, you know, white collar corporate. You know, nobody needs another like mid-level management person, but you do need to have a useful skill.

And so if you can't weld or do carpentry or do plumbing, you could at least have some sort of physical ability that can be a value, you know, and also a bike. So I, it's interestingly bought an e-bike, which is not really in an apo apocalyptic world, we're not gonna have electricity. So I don't really know what I was thinking.

There I go on a tangent. But yes, uh, that was initially my motivation for. Picking up the bike. So I got an e-bike and one of my best friends, uh, bought this secondhand bike from, uh, Gumtree. And it was like an old clank. And together we would just, we started going on little rides around. That was like our equivalent of going for our, you know, one walk a day.

We would go for like a little quick spin and then as lockdown started lifting, we would go, we started going to, so I live in London, so we'd go to Richmond Park, which is just a local park, uh, where I say local. It's a huge park in South London that where it's just deer and the roads are really good quality and people love to go and ride bikes there.

So we would go and do those before work and that was wonderful 'cause you see the sun sunrise, it was just beautiful. And eventually I just, I absolutely fell in love with just riding around. It was wonderful. And I wanted to go further and further field, but the e-bike would hold me back because you'd have to think about, okay, when do I charge the battery?

And all of that. It was really became a crutch. And so I ended up getting a road bike and, uh, my, my, uh, my bestie, who I was riding with as well, also got upgrade her road bike. So for a period of time we'd go to the park together, and then I just realized that I wanted to get stronger and stronger, and she was never really, you know, she's gen Gen ZI mean, she's a junior millennial, I have to say.

So she was, has a variety of interests. She does tri she was doing a, a running as well and a bunch of other sports too. So for her, she wasn't ready to go down the cycling rabbit hole like I was. Whereas I, you know, started, uh, going on group rides. I got a coach, I got an indoor trainer. I really just wanted to like, get stronger because I wanted to be able to go on a ride and not be panicking about going uphill.

So that's, that's how my journey began. And. Spiraled pretty intensely since, since that, uh, last year. Yeah.

Rhona: Yeah. That's amazing. And was there anything, um, I guess, you know, you said you wanted to get stronger. Was there anything that you had in mind that you were like, I want to be able to do this thing. You were like, I wanna, was there something that really motivated you there?

lumes: Yeah. There was my, the first group ride that I went on, I still remember the day, and, and every time I go up, I, I go to the park. There's this one climb called Valley Hill, and I remember it was like a lapse that this, uh, my first cycling club that I was a part of put on and showed up. We set off around the park and everyone's chatting away and like having a lovely time.

And I was out of, I could not, I was hanging on for dear life and the pace was very moderate in hindsight, but we. Took the turn to go up Valley Hill, which is again, I think it peaks at what, maybe 6%, if so, five, 6%. It's very short as well. But as we're going up, we, the road starts to go up and I was immediately dropped, of course.

And they're just chatting away all the way up and everyone like sticks together as a group and they made their way all the way up. And I, when I got to the top, eventually got to the top, I had to stop and catch my breath for I kid you not about five minutes. I had to stop up that. And I was in a really bad way.

I just did not have the fitness at all for that. And I just, I remember looking around the group and just being, how are you, how have you all done that? How is that possible to have just carried on up this hill like it was nothing and get to the top and not need to rest? How are you doing that? And they were like, oh, it hadn't really thought, it hadn't occurred to them.

They hadn't really thought about it and they were so kind and so lovely, but it just. To them, it was just, it's just a thing that you do. And that's, that's the moment, because up until then, I'd only been riding with my friend and we were at similar levels of, of fitness, but she also doesn't really like to push that hard on the bike.

So I thought my fitness was, was okay. And then I rode at these guys and I was like, ah, okay. I could see the gap between who I was and where they were. And that was the moment. And I decided this, I can't, now, if I'm gonna do the sport, it needs to, I need to do something about that. I didn't know what was possible, but I just knew that if I just kept riding, whenever I felt like riding, I would just was never going to be able to do what they were doing.

And I was talking to somebody else the other day actually, where they'd also had a, they uh, they had a similar ride where they joined a group and the pace for them, they just could not at all keep up. And they were struggling to the point where the group had to keep stopping every. I don't know, 10 minutes so they could catch up.

And it was meant to be the social pace of the ride, and everybody was really nice about it. Everyone's really, you know, nobody minded stopping, but it just, it obviously interrupts the flow and it was quite cold and all of that. So it just, it was very disruptive. But I was, you know, I was talking to, to this, uh, this person who had joined the ride and we were sharing because I, I, it made me realize, I, I think everybody was gonna have that one ride.

That really is, it's such a shambles that it makes you realize, okay, I'm, I'm gonna have to lock in. I'm gonna have to, like, I never wanna feel that way again. I never wanna be in that situation again. I'm either gonna do something about this or I'm gonna stop riding and I think. For that person. I think that was the ride for them.

And for me it was the, that Valley Hill lap ride that made me realize, no, you're either, you, you need to lock in. This is not, never wanna feel that way again. And anytime I feel myself slacking a little bit, I think back to that ride. And I'm like, okay, no we can't. Because I remember exactly how that felt to this day.

And I still remember it. If I don't wanna do a training session or I don't for a ride, I think of that day and I'm like, okay, get up. We gotta get up. We can't.

Rhona: Fair play. Fair play to you because seriously, you could have seen that so differently and been really deterred. Um, like something within you is clearly really driven. You know, you did not wanna give up. You were like, nah, this is not happening. Yeah, and I think the thing is, um, I think cycling is a little bit one of those sports where a lot of people in it have just always been doing it, or they've least been doing it for such a long time.

They don't really remember how they got there. They've just always been there at that point and they just regularly do it enough that they're just, you know. And so it is really hard sometimes, especially as an adult, I think, to get into something like that because you see way less, there's so much, so many less of the people trying to get into it than there are of the people who are just already there. So lots of people end up being that one person in the ride and it

lumes: Yeah,

Rhona: to be that person who's getting sped the back over and over.

lumes: it's the worst feeling and I think as you get stronger, you're completely right. You've, you completely forget because in your mind you still think, because I still think I'm the slowest, like oftentimes on hills, I still get dropped quite, quite a bit. So, but then. Somebody else is riding who's maybe a little bit, uh, more newer to the sport and then they end up getting dropped.

It's, you don't really see the progress you've made until you ride with other people who aren't as far along as you are. And then it kind of makes you think, oh, okay, maybe, um, uh, maybe, maybe there has been some progress here. But yeah, it, it, it does feel, it feels pretty, pretty awful. And I remember that feeling so viscerally.

Uh, and I, I've been in that situation since where you, you know, we'll go on a gear ride and there there'll be newbies who come along. And anytime I see anybody struggling, I make it a point to make sure that they, I know that they're thinking, oh, this is horrible. I'm holding everyone back. And I make, I try to make it a point to say, you are absolutely fine.

Maybe give some tips. And, you know, I probably, I, I, I won't, I can't necessarily ride with them. Uh, just because then I, it just feels like a lot of, I used to hate when people would do that for me, but again, it's, you know, we get into our own heads about that. But, you know, it's, if we're stopping when you, when you finally make it up the hill, you're not gonna be met with anything but encouragement.

If I'm there,

Rhona: Yeah. And

lumes: to

Rhona: is

lumes: allow that.

Rhona: Yeah. And like, I think sometimes you're right though. 'cause sometimes if, if somebody stays back with you, you feel a bit like that feels worse. You're just like, no, just, just leave me please.

lumes: yeah, yeah. And I, you know what's interesting? When I first started, uh, when I decided to lock in and I, I got a coach and started doing some of the, a lot of solo ride. So I didn't really have any, uh, friends per se. I was part of that club, but it, I didn't have any go-to friends initially. So I did a lot of riding on my own and it was.

So freeing to ride solo, because I realized, okay, if I'm gonna ride with a group I like, there's, there's something, there are things I need to, um, invest in. I need to get a bike computer. I need to get, you know, some of those aftershock headphones things. So when you start to feel yourself getting into your own head, you can have a distraction in there as well.

So I did, I did that too, and I made sure that if I was going on group rides, in the end, if I wasn't riding solo, but I was going on a group ride, I would have the route, I would make it clear to the ride leader. At some point I'm gonna get out the back. And when that happens, it's completely fine. I just please go forth and I, my job, you know, it's, I'm, what I'm trying to do is learn how to keep up.

So don't stop. And some, some rider leaders are okay with that, and others would be like, no, I'm not allowed to drop you. And then you have that discussion. But I would always, because I knew the feeling just is not a, it's not a good feeling no matter how nice people are a part of you. Right? It's always like, hmm.

You don't wanna be that person, but you have to be that person, at least in the beginning.

Rhona: Yeah,

lumes: to get better, you have to let yourself be that person. So it's a

Rhona: to keep showing up, otherwise you don't get better. And that's,

lumes: Exactly.

Rhona: But the fact that you did keep showing up and that you came back and, you know, and, and pushed through and you actively chose every

lumes: Mm-hmm.

Rhona: to keep going, I think that, you know, that just shows your, like one tough cookie.

Seriously. You'll, I, you know, you'll, that there will be times I'm sure where you can draw on that. You know, when you're out and you're doing a challenge for yourself that you want to complete, that you can just go, well, I got to this point, you know?

lumes: I think it's the power of realizing that you are allowed to set your own goalposts. So, you know, the, um, the default goalpost of a group ride is to complete the whole loop of the group ride with the group. Right. That's just the default. That doesn't mean that that has to be your. Goalpost. So deciding in advance before you even show up what you want your goalpost to be, that's something that has helped me in the past.

'cause in my mind I'm like, I wanna make it to, I wanna stay with the group for the first 10 K, and then if what if I get dropped after that, that's completely fine. And then for me, if I make it to 11 K, 12 K, and then I get dropped, it's still a phenomenal day because that was the goalpost that I set. And I think oftentimes we default into this idea of what other people, what the, you know, what other people think the goalpost should be, and then we forget to check in with ourselves.

Like what, actually, yes, that might be the goalpost. Yes, the finish line might be the goalpost, but what? What's your goalpost? And I think it's tough to be that intentional around that, especially when there's so. Cycl cycling and cycling for fun and cycling with people you don't really know that well. It can be really hard to find your own agency, but I think I've been, uh, pretty lucky to have been able to learn how to do that early into my, early in, into my cycling, cycling career.

Is it a career? My cycling journey? Any,

Rhona: It's kind of a career now, isn't it?

lumes: yeah. Yeah. Uh, and that comes from my coaching, uh, experience as well because I'm also a, uh, mindset coach too. So I coach, uh, mostly corporate people, but I coach high achievers who are trying to get to a particular goal or outcome, and so that I have the immense privilege of having that.

Uh, training a background that has, I'm been able to take and apply to my own. And it's not perfect by any means. You still have your weak moments, of course, because a human brain, uh, human being and our brains are, you know, made of meat. And that's just, that's the way that the, that's the way that we were designed, right?

Yeah.

Rhona: us are, are bulletproof. Really? Um, that's so interesting though, that explains a lot about your approach 'cause you kind of said. I was like, wow, she just liked cycling and then she just went, went out and did this perfect step by step progression, you know? So you, you're used to breaking it down like that, I guess.

Then that's how you work with your clients then, and, and

lumes: yes.

Rhona: of applied that to your own life.

lumes: Exactly, and I mean, the key, it's the first of all, that's hilarious that you thought that. And, um, if I've left that impression, I need to correct that immediately because it, the cycling stopped being, if it wasn't, obviously the actual feeling of riding a bike and moving through the world on two wheels, it's physically feels great.

Right? It's, it's just like a really fun place to be. But our brains, our biggest, our biggest haters, like it's a, it's, it's a complete battle. I, I talk a lot about there you need to have a, a certain level of ego death in order to get better at cycling because you need to get past that point of, if you're focused on this idea that if you get dropped, it's the end of the world, or if you get dropped and means something about you, you're never gonna allow yourself or give yourself the opportunity to progress.

Right? It's like when you have toddlers, I mean, I don't have children. I've seen children in the wild, you know, my friends have children, I'm familiar with children. Uh, but when you see, you know, a, a parent trying to deal or encourage a toddler to, to learn something or do something, they don't do that by call.

You know, calling them names or berating them or making them feel terrible because they don't get it the first time. It requires a certain amount of patience. And I think we forget that on the inside. We're all just a bunch of toddlers. You know, we're toddlers, cosplaying as adults. Some of us have credit cards, some of us have, you know, uh, jobs and we pay taxes, you know, and, and all of that.

But really we're just, we're just a bunch of toddlers. And so we need to talk to ourselves the way that we would talk to a toddler. And that's normally a really good starting point to trying to show the level of compassion, show yourself the level of compassion that you need in order to let give yourself the opportunity to go and do really cool, scary things.

So that's been, I keep putting

Rhona: I'm so

lumes: that, sorry,

Rhona: I

lumes: that's

Rhona: such a interesting perspective because I think the really old school way of achievement was work harder, do more, do better. And if you don't do those things, then you just be harsher to yourself and you be, or your coach is harsher to you, but actually you just like hit the nail on the head.

It's actually compassion that leads you to achievement.

lumes: million percent.

Rhona: yourself does not lead you anywhere. It, it leads you to burnout and lots of sadness and maybe over training and probably some other terrible things, but it doesn't leave you to achievement. Does it

lumes: No, it, it really doesn't. It really doesn't. I think, and I think a lot of us mistake the fact that we berate ourselves and are still able to achieve our goals. We mistakenly, uh, you know, uh, give the credit to the fact that we berated ourselves to reach our goals. But the reality is it's this equivalent of climbing a mountain with a backpack full of rocks.

Like, yeah, you made it to the top. But it's not the rocks that helped you make it to the top. Right? You made it to the top despite you having a bag of rocks. So

Rhona: Oh,

lumes: how much,

Rhona: such a good gem. That's amazing. I love that. I'm gonna use that all the time now.

lumes: right? Yeah,

Rhona: that's

lumes: yeah,

Rhona: good analogy. That's brilliant.

lumes: yeah. Like imagine how much better the experience would've been if you just put the bag of rocks down and then try to go up. Right? So, yeah. So I, I think about that a lot and it's, um, it, it really helps with wanting to push yourself. You, if you wanna push yourself, you're gonna have to, yeah, you have to talk to yourself like a toddler.

You have to be gentle. You have to be kind and compassionate and, um, you have to give yourself the chance to, to do wild things. I mean, there's no way I would've done any of what I've done up until this point if I hadn't had that, had that mindset.

Rhona: Yeah. That's amazing. And, um, so I have done lots of different things, activities and stuff, and I, I've, I've sort of experienced working with a coach, but I've never really properly worked with a coach of sort of, i, I do some coaching, um, but, um, I think that that's so cool that you just went and got a coach. You were like, I wanna achieve this thing. So obviously I just go and get an expert to help me do it. Um, and I think this probably says something about me that I haven't done that before. I don't know what it is, but I need to maybe think about that. Um, but love that you did do that. Tell me about that journey.

What was like working with somebody else from the kind of really relatively early on.

lumes: Yeah. That, look, that's a really good observation about yourself as well, you know, for, I think a, a big part of that relies on knowing how, knowing what pushes you, knowing, knowing what is what it is that gets you going. For me, I need, I need. I see visible progress. So I respond really well to any sort of, any sort of engagement I'm doing where there is a way for me to visibly see progress.

So numbers usually or some something really tangible that I can use. So I already knew that about myself. I need to be observed in order to do things. So I respond really well to having some, having that level of accountability. Not everybody does. Some people are really good self-starters and they'll get themselves going and they can motivate themselves and, you know, do all that.

They couldn't be me. Some people can start a whole business and, you know, have it go really well, can be me. When I was in school, we had, there was one year where there weren't enough students in the class for us, for the school to hire a teacher. So the school, uh, did, got a contract with this, uh, university in the US to do distance learning for our class.

So we had to do like self-taught learning. It was,

Rhona: While

lumes: it was Horri. Yeah. Yeah. When I was in high school. Yeah. There was, I, there were only eight of us in the class, and the school couldn't justify because I, I grew up, I grew up all over the world, and we went to, uh, a variety of different international schools all over Africa, the Caribbean.

And there was one particular school that I went to in Cameroon where, yeah, we didn't have, there weren't enough students to justify bringing in a teacher. So yeah, we had to do self-learning, and that was horrible. It was self-paced. Oh my gosh. That was, it was, it was, it was horrific. I had one of my, one of my, uh, one of my best friends from the class, she was straight A student, proper type A.

She was, she took to it like a duck to water, self-managed herself, set her whole schedule, did all, no, couldn't be me. So I've known from a young age that I need that level of accountability and observation. And so from a coach made perfect sense. Also, the mental load of having to be the one to. Dictate what your training should be, what you're supposed to do.

Like, if it's up to me, if I only rode when I felt like riding, I would ride maybe once a month, maybe twice. So for me, I knew I need, I need to bring in an expert. I need somebody to call. Do make those decisions for me. Tell me, I'll tell you my goals, and you tell me what I need to do. And we do the least amount for the most amount of results.

But that was a brief that I gave to my first coach, and he was amazing. His name is Mark. He is, he is great. And, uh, revolution, cc shout out. Uh, but Mark was awesome and he was from the north super chill, but also was, you know, good at pushing and making sure that I was sticking to the plan and that we were working together to, to that the, the, the way that he was putting the schedule together worked for me.

And so he was an excellent first coach. I would highly recommend him if anybody, uh, is exploring having their first coach. So. Worked with Mark and we did a lot of, uh, did a lot of, uh, events together. I went on a lot of cycling holidays that he helped to prepare me for, and so what I loved about that, yeah, like I said, the mental load was massively lifted by having a coach and it meant that I didn't have to think about anything.

I just got on the bike and I rode and I did what I was, did what the schedule said. I didn't question it, I just did it, and I could see the progress come from that as well. So yeah, I would a million percent advocate for a coach unless you're the kind of person who is a really good self-starter and you're really good at just getting up and doing what you need to do for the day with no, no sense that you might get in trouble.

It be me, I know that much. So yeah,

Rhona: That's so brilliant. That's amazing. You're so self-aware that you know that about yourself and that you just went ahead and did that. I love, that's absolutely fantastic. Um, that's interesting as well that you said, you know, if you, if you just rode when you felt like it, you wouldn't, I think that's a really big thing sometimes. Um. When I'm talking to people, people are like, oh, but how do you manage to exercise whatever, four days a week, whatever you do, whatever the number is. And I'm like, well, I just tell myself that's what I'm gonna do. know? Or because I don't think if you, I think if you wake up in the morning and then just decide what you're gonna do that day, you won't do it anything. Or at

lumes: Yeah.

Rhona: that's what I would do. And I think that's the case for a lot of people that like a lot of the time you'll wake up in the morning and you'll find a reason probably not to like, oh, I've had a long day at work, or I actually, I got something else I need to do. I, one of my friends who said, do you wanna go to the pub? if you say at the start of the week, oh, well I will definitely run four times this week or something, then I think you do do it. Um, well, you're more likely to. And I think that that's a really interesting point. 'cause I, as much as I want exercise and sport and that kind of stuff to be really fun, is also some days where it's not super fun, but it's worth

lumes: I think

Rhona: the

lumes: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like it, I guess the question for you then is what, what, why do you want exercise?

Rhona: Oh, that's a such a difficult question. There is.

lumes: But you know, it's, it, you know, and it, it ties back to this, um, I can't, oh, James Clear wrote the Atomic Habits book. Uh, are you familiar with

Rhona: yeah.

lumes: So basically the gist.

Rhona: the book and it's on my list. Yeah.

lumes: The premise of the book is how do you adopt new habits that you wanna take on? Say you wanna start drinking water every day, the right amount of water every day, or you wanna start journaling or you wanna, you know, or even a bigger goal, like you want to go and, I don't know, travel the world or, or whatever it is.

His premise is that you can't do take on a new habit without having to adopt the identity that, um, element that comes with it. So for every new habit that you take on, it needs to be tied to an identity shifts that you want to make in order for it to stick. So if you're, if, if in your head you're just thinking, I wanna exercise every day, and then you leave it at that.

You're less likely to exercise every day because it's not tied to the core of who it is that you are trying to become. So then you ask yourself, oh, okay, well when I exercise every day, that's great. Why is that? Oh, I wanna exercise every day 'cause I wanna live forever. Okay, cool. But why? Why do you wanna live forever?

Well, I just think it's important that I'm, you know, like I'm healthy and I wanna live a long and fruitful life. Okay, so your identity then becomes, I'm the kind of person who is living a long and fruitful life, and then you see the world through that lens and all of a sudden exercising every day becomes just a thing that that identity will allow you to do.

And so,

Rhona: so true and so interesting.

Um, it's also interesting because, um, so I, I'm a GP in my other part of my life, um, and so I do a lot of like behavior change work with patients. Um, but I've never thought about it like that, and I've never really, you know. Yeah, I guess we do this like motivational interviewing where you kind of slowly work with people to make them feel motivated to make changes. But I guess I, I've never thought about it as just them identifying as that differently. actually, some ways, that feels like that might be a new way in for me, because people sometimes will say to me like, I don't feel like a person who has diabetes.

Like I, so maybe I can be like, well, if you don't feel like that, I can help you be that person. You know? And

lumes: Yeah,

Rhona: that's, yeah, there you go.

lumes: yeah,

Rhona: revelationary conversation. This,

lumes: yeah. Right. A, a good, a good follow up for that would then be like, okay, well what, what do you think a diabetic person, how would a diabetic person make a decision about what to about A or B, about this or about that? And then help them really embody that because they're gonna have to accept that identity

Rhona: yeah.

lumes: and then figure out what it means for them, and then see the world through that lens.

Rhona: I think I'm gonna have to read this book now, aren't I?

lumes: I, I'm, I'm a big fan. I like it. It's, um, I'm always wary of like self-improvement work that's done by men, you know? Uh, but, uh, I just, what for what I hope is for obvious reasons, but this, this book, I, I liked the premise of it, and I, and I like the way that he, he breaks it down. Uh, so yeah, he also talks about habit stacking as well.

The example would be the, the last identity shift that I had to make was where I had to actually. Uh, well, last year I rode every stage of the Women's Tour of France, uh, to raise money. To raise, yeah. To raise funds for cure leukemia. And, um, it was, it was phenomenal. But in order to do that, to do the, from the, what, the sheer scale of trying to make that happen, the identity shift that I had to make was to become an athlete.

I had to embrace the fact that I was an athlete and that that wasn't something that I consciously had thought about. It's not until I was complaining to a friend about the sheer amount of training and work I was having to go into that. And my friend just looked at me and she went, well, yeah, that makes sense 'cause you're an athlete.

And I was like, my God.

Rhona: what did that feel like when somebody else said it to you before you had rec, like recognized it?

lumes: I mean, I'm a bit of a know-it-all, so it's, it's not often that I have my mind blown. So when she, when she said that, it cut, it blew my mind a little bit, which is, I have to say, one of my favorite states to be in is to have my mind blown. And so the whole, it's a loop. It's, it's unimportant, but it blew my mind because I hadn't seen the connection yet.

And that's where the, the thing with habit and identity actually made sense because what I was trying to do was, I was not in, I, in my mind, if you said to me, you're an athlete, I've been like, absolutely not. I'm just a regular, I'm just a girl. I'm just a regular person trying to do this like massive scary thing.

And so every decision was fraught because it was, okay, well, do I sleep for a bit longer today or do I, you know, go and do this session? Or like, do I, making choices was proving really difficult. And I was taking up a lot of head space because I was almost fighting against that notion, like, I'm not an athlete, but I do need to make a decision about what, you know, X, Y, and Z.

And then once I embraced that and said, okay, well. If I'm an athlete, then in my mind every decision is like, well, what, what choice would an athlete make? Would an athlete do this? Would an athlete do that? Well, what would an athlete do in this situation? And it just lifted the, the mental load for me because at the, the training session stopped feeling like a burden and started being, started feeling more like a means to an end.

Like, yeah, even if I don't feel like doing it, even if I'm not in the mood to get on the bike and ride, what would an athlete do? An athlete would ride, right? So, and then I would be able to ride. It doesn't make things easier, but it does lift a lot of that resistance that we feel when we're trying to force ourselves to do something for all the wrong reasons.

Rhona: This is so good. We've, I've just like touched on some really interesting stuff here. Um, so a lot of the time when I do these episodes, I'm talking to people about how sometimes it's risky that their identity is tied up with the thing that they're doing though, because they, you know, they become an athlete in their friend's eyes, in their own eyes, and then they have this injury and for six months they can't be the athlete. And it can be super complicated. So you've also got this like risk at some point that that also could cause a problem. But at the same time, if you don't see yourself like that, you're not gonna be able to achieve the goal. So you ju it's a really difficult balance to, to kind of hold, isn't it?

lumes: Yeah, it's, it, it, it's, and I think that's where this idea of, because there's a danger, and I see this with my coachees all the time. I see it with myself as well. There's a danger where as you're trying to embrace this new identity. If you are somebody who has a perfectionist mindset, you're gonna be trying to embrace it in the perfect way, right?

So your example around you want to be the kind of person who's living a long and healthy and fruitful life. If you're, if you also happen to be a perfectionist in other areas of your life, that's gonna show up with this identity space. So how you know that you are actually embracing a new identity versus just your perfectionist mindset trying to like work overtime.

There is if this new identity comes with that level of compassion, right?

Rhona: it's beautiful. She's bringing it all together. It's so good.

lumes: But it's so, it's so true, right? So if I, what, when I decided, when I decided to embrace that athlete identity within myself, it wasn't, you know, the, the default would be, okay, well, Serena Williams is, when I think of athlete, I think of Serena Williams. What would Serena Williams do? But that's the perfectionist mindset talking, because that doesn't allow me any space to bring me and who I am in the realities of my own context into this new identity with me.

So there's a reality of who Rhona is and what does a version of Rhona that's living along and healthy, fruitful life entail? Well, maybe she'll have some mistakes sometimes, but mostly she'll make good decisions and sometimes she'll get poorly, but that doesn't mean that she's not living a long and healthy and fruitful life, right?

That just gives you the space to play around a little bit in there. So this athlete. Identity is, is an identity that ha it has to be rooted in who I actually am as a person. I'm usually not motivated. I mean, I tend to prefer to be as lazy as possible where I'm currently horizontal as we speak. Right?

Rhona: hard to believe that, based on what you just said about riding all the stages of the Tour de France, but

lumes: True. Right. I had to drag myself kicking and screaming around that and you would think, oh, well if you know you, you, the, it's the perfection, the perfectionist magnet, which I also am in a lot of other areas of my life, and I could feel it creep in every now and then. And so it's a constant battle in the runup to that to, to the tour.

I love calling it a tour because it makes me feel like Beyonce when I was on tour. Uh, but it's, you know.

Rhona: all your fans as you

lumes: Yeah, right. But, but people would come out and like cheer for us and stuff, and we're all wearing matching kit. And obviously we were doing it the day before, each day, the day before the pro. So all the locals were expecting pro women.

Rhona: I.

lumes: And we would have, uh, kids would run up and the families would take photos with us. People would take selfies with us. 'cause they, they thought we were pro. And so it was, they really, you know, and that's gonna like, that's gonna make that identity really sink in even further. But the, the, it was, it was probably one of the hardest things I've ever willingly put myself through was that I was kicking and screaming all the way in the runup to it.

And so, you know, the embracing the identity that you want to adopt isn't gonna make things feel easier or better for you. You're so, you still have the same brain. You still have, you know, if you have doubts and insecurities, you're still gonna have all of those because you have a human brain. And that's just the way our brains work.

But it's gonna make decision making a lot easier. It's gonna make it a little bit easier for you to tap into that compassion element. And for me. Because I allowed myself to be nuts. I wasn't trying to be ser Serena Williams. You know, I had to remember that it's still me. And if I'm gonna be an athlete, I'm gonna have to do it tired.

I'm gonna have to do it unmotivated. I'm gonna have to do it when I'd rather be out drinking the sun with my friends. I'm gonna have to do it do when it's late at night and I've had a 12 hour workday, like, I'm gonna have to do it regardless. And with all of those parts of me that are gonna resist the whole way.

But the perfectionist mindset's gonna make you think, oh, well if you, you know, I've, I've, I've not done this one thing, and so I actually, this whole identity thing isn't gonna work. Right. So, yeah, that the, to sum it up, it's the difference between being a perfectionist and embracing a new identity and making sure that you are not the perfectionist side of you isn't trying to get in there.

And, uh.

Rhona: So good. I think that's so relevant to the whole kind of very broad and vast rest days concept that you know, so if you were training for something instead of yeah, saying, I'm gonna be this, you know Serena Williams, I'm gonna meet myself where I am and. here, which means that I can only do this actual amount of training.

I can't do Serena Williams' amount of training 'cause that's not where I am. that, 'cause that's definitely where this, this often falls down for people is they look at a goal and then they're like, okay, so I wanna get there. And then they just go all in, you know? And they don't give themselves any compassion, like you said.

And they don't, they don't have the rest days physically or mentally, and they don't give themselves that love that they need to actually make the progress. Oh. It's just, yeah, I think this this way of looking at it is really good. I really like it.

lumes: Yeah, I, I love it too. That's why I love the idea, you know, everything that you're doing with the rest days community. Um, I'm such a fan of the whole concept of it, the execution of it. I think as somebody who now identifies as an athlete, uh, I, it's, even if you see the influencer version of what re a rest day looks like versus an actual professional athlete's version of what a rest day looks like, they're very different.

Right? An influencer is gonna go and, you know, get a latte, go to the gym and maybe do some movement. And, you know, all of these activities, you see these videos all the time. But a real pro will spend most of the day asleep.

Rhona: Mm.

lumes: And so there's this idea of when you meet yourself where you are, absolutely.

And then be realistic about. You know, some of the, the, the realities of this identity that you're chasing as well and what that looks like, and then allowing that grace element to get in there as well. I think, yeah, I think the, oh yeah. I'm a huge, huge fan of, of the concept. I love it.

Rhona: And the, and the, I think it's interesting as well that you identified that sometimes for you, you needed to also use this concept to get you to do stuff as well, which is really like really interesting because. If you had, you know, because you did that, you then achieved this incredible thing. I mean, doing that, uh, trip must have been one of the most amazing things in your life.

Like, it just sounds like, it sounds like a bucket list thing to do.

lumes: It's a definitely a once in a lifetime thing, but, um, you know, I, uh, I will not be repeating in, at least not in this lifetime unless you get more lifetimes. But it was, uh, yeah, it was 1200 thousand thousand, 1200, uh, kilometers, 20,000 meters elevation, nine days. That's a lot. That's a lot.

Rhona: so much.

lumes: I had no business being there.

I this considering I had picked up a bike, what, three years previously, and all of a sudden ended up at the tour. That tells you a lot about how my brain works and why I'm such a pro when it comes to working with perfection, dealing with perfectionist, because I can't be chill about anything. I mentioned before, my previous hobby was photography.

I started a wedding photography business. So I can't just like do a thing and enjoy it. I need to see it right to its natural culmination. I picked up a bike, ended up at the tour of France, so it's, I, I know this, I accept this about myself, the spiral. I get it and I see it now and I think it's, it. It did not in real time feel amazing.

I think I was so. I was so good in the runup to the training because I trained for about nine months for it. And in the runup to the training, I did not allow myself to think about the scale of what we were about to do. There was a bunch of us, uh, ladies who did it, uh, from all over the world and of varying degrees of experience.

And that said, that was probably the least experience and the newest to cycling from the whole group. But they were incredible and we had a wonderful team of support, support us throughout the whole event. But in the runup, during the training, I couldn't allow myself to think about the actual scale of it because it would be, it just, it was overwhelming.

So I was focused just on my next mini goal. Okay, so we're gonna do this and then we're gonna do that. And so baby steps, by the time it gotta the thing and then we completed it. There was this delayed reaction of like, shock. And I don't wanna, I don't like to throw this word around because it holds a lot of meaning, but trauma not to be dramatic, um, it, it went completely well.

There was nothing that, you know, there was nothing that basically that went wrong, but it was just the, it took a good two to three months for me to get to a place where I could actually process, felt like I processed what had happened. But it was this, it was a lot. And even now when I talk about it, I'm okay.

I'm, I process it now and I can talk about it and, you know, see it for what it was with just this magical once in a lifetime experience. But it did take, it did take a while. And if I hadn't had the level of compassion going into it with the trainings, if I hadn't really leaned into this, uh, athlete mindset, if I hadn't.

I allowed myself the space to be pretty imperfect about this thing. And if I hadn't also pushed through this notion that you need motivation to do anything, motivation is we'll sell you a dream. Motivation is the man you meet of the club who is promising you the world and you're never gonna see him again, right?

You have the most romantic 12 hours from takeaways running through the streets of London, and then never to see them again. Not speaking from experience or anything that might be a little overshare, but Mo, you cannot count on motivation, mo. You have to create motivation. It's a thing that comes after you start doing the thing, and then when you start doing it, then you feel motivated.

But if you're waiting around for motivation, you.

Rhona: That's brilliant. More, more gems, but also thank you for being so honest about how you felt about doing that trip. Because I think, um, when you do something like that, there's this pressure to just be like, yeah, it was the greatest thing ever. And you know, I kind of actually did a a, this error there by just assuming that is what you were gonna kind of say about it.

Because people, I think, feel like they have to, and I'm glad that you said, well, yeah, like it was this amazing thing, but also it was really

lumes: It was,

Rhona: And

lumes: it was, yeah.

Rhona: you know, maybe it isn't the, you know, not for that wouldn't be for everybody and doesn't have to be, and that is like actually completely fine. How long did it take you to physically recover afterwards?

lumes: Physically when I got back, I couldn't really stand up straight. Um, my lower back really took a beating. I, um, got, ended up getting my period maybe. So it was nine days. I got my period on day six, and that came with a lot of joint pain, a lot of back pain, a lot of just pain. And in, up until then, I hadn't trained during my period at all.

Uh, I'd always avoided sessions. I would be like, oh, well, an athlete would really rest during this time period, so I'm gonna just like, stay off the bike and look up to myself. But that, that meant that when it got to game time, I didn't know how to fix it. I didn't know how it, you know, I didn't have any, I hadn't practiced any solutions.

I just was completely unprepared. And the queen stage was stage seven. We stage seven, eight, and nine. Were all in the mountains and the first half were kind of more on rolling flatlands. So that was the hardest stages. It was the stage I'd done the most preparation for. And then when it came down to it, I, my body just fell apart and I completed it and I made it through to the end.

I didn't have to walk up any of the, any of the climbs, but I had to stop a lot. And that was, that was, uh, that was the second pivotal moment in cycling for me. The first was going up Ballet Hill. The second was having to stop during the queen stage where we had to climb the Col de la, Madeline, which is a 20 kilometer climb with an average gradient of, I wanna say 11% or so.

And it took me four. It took me four, and I had the worst back pain of my life. And it took me about four and a half hours to get to the top. It was. Grim. It was absolutely grim. We had a camera crew following us as well. NBC Sports did a mini documentary. I'll send it to you after this, where they were able to capture a lot of tears and the pain in 4K, which I'm so thrilled about, but it was for a good cause.

I had had,

Rhona: be hard to watch.

lumes: it's, I can't, I, I watched it once and then the only times I've been, I've watched it again, are like, if with, for like an event, if I'm doing a, if I'm speaking and then they wanna play it and I just kind of, I can't really watch it. I, I feel so it, I haven't watched it without crying again, remembering that and it was a magical experience, but it was just, you know, I talked before about everyone having that ride that make forces you to lock in.

And even though I put so much work into it, by the time I gotta that Madeline climb horrific, absolutely horrific. The amount of pain that I was in, it made me realize, again, how much further I had to go with how I wanna feel on the bike, and how resilient I want my body to be in these circumstances. Yes, it was, you know, related to my menstrual cycle as well, but it was also fatigue and it was also all this other stuff.

And there are things that I hadn't done in the runup. I hadn't done any strength training in the runup either. So that is something that I started doing when I got back. I also hadn't really been, uh, that focused on overall nutrition. I mean, I was making good choices, but I wasn't eating like an athlete.

I was just trying to eat as healthy, healthy as I could. And there were just all these other elements that it just, it just made me realize. I'd never wanna feel that way again. So I haven't missed the gym session since I got back. It's been like six months or so. I am, there's no, like, I'd never wanna feel that way again.

And it's completely changed my approach yet again in cycling. So it's, yeah, it's, uh, a lot of lessons were learned, but also it was for an incredible cause and we raised so much money for the, for Cure Leukemia for the charity, which I'm so proud of, proud about. They're the ones who put it on, uh, it's called The route and they put it on every year where anyone can sign up and ride every stage at the women's and fundraise as well.

It's part of the, it's their big annual fundraising event. So, uh, check it out if you haven't, if you're looking for a challenge, highly recommend if you wanna learn about yourself. Yeah. If you wanna learn about yourself, uh, that's it. That's one to explore. They do have one where you can ride the men's stage with the men's a week before the pros.

That one's a little bit more hardcore. 'cause the men have 25 stages. I wanna say that. Yeah. It's the same charity who puts it on Cure Leukemia.

Rhona: It's incredible. So, I mean, kind of sounds like what you're saying is there's gonna be something even bigger in the future.

lumes: Well today I'm currently resting. So, um, yeah, that's, uh, I think before I wasn't taking, oh, that's the other thing I'm gonna say. I was taking my rest days seriously at all.

Rhona: You gotta take those rest days seriously.

lumes: I was not. Now I do now rest day is a full rest day and I don't do anything and I just sleep and I eat well and I rest. So that's one challenge for this year is to rest properly, which again, was magical when, when I got your message because I was like, oh, look at that one goal achieved.

Wonderful. And encourage people to rest as well. Uh, but I have, I have a few things, uh, lined up for this year. Smaller challenges with a lot less pressure and a lot less eyeballs. So there we're doing, a few of us are doing the etape. The women's etape, which is gonna be up mont ventoux this summer. So I'm excited for that.

One stage, one day, just one. It's the queen stage, but it's just one. So I like, okay, I'm gonna, that's more manageable. And then I will be going up to Dolomites as well later this year, which I believe are long and steep. So I've been working on trying to get used to steeper inclines too, and just generally getting even stronger, uh, as, as strong as possible as I possibly can at this advanced disa, advanced age and continuing to get PBs.

And just really trying to make sure that I'm never faced as much as possible. I'm never faced with anything that feels as insurmountable as the last 12 months have really felt. And just trying to prepare myself, trying to make sure I'm doing everything that I can to. As much as possible. Yeah. Keep getting stronger.

Rhona: Do you think if

lumes: Yeah,

Rhona: going on this journey though, that you will you know, might find that you always find another like ceiling

lumes: that's a really good

Rhona: 'cause I think the thing is there's always something harder. You know, like, maybe you'll do this and then you'll be one of those crazy people that I'm gonna now ride an ultra, you know?

And then after you've written an ultra, you'll be like, right, no. Well, I, now, I wrote a three day ultra, now I'm gonna read a two week ultra. And then, and then before you know it, you'll be like, I'm, I'm gonna ride around the world now.

lumes: Look, if you'd asked me that before last year, I would've said yes because prior to joining the route, I'd actually applied for this, uh, scholarship where I cannot remember the name of it. Now it's escaped me,

Rhona: Or was

lumes: but.

Rhona: distance

lumes: Ultra distance. That's the one I'd applied to the ultra distance scholarship. But I was a little too honest in the application when they were asked, when they asked, oh, what's your experience sleeping out, uh, with camping?

And I was like, I don't really like dirt or sleeping outside or generally being uncomfortable. And they asked a few other questions that I was a little too honest about. So obviously I didn't get it. Uh, probably, probably for the best. But I really was looking for a challenge. I wanted something to, I wanted a catalyst for my fitness to really have something bigger than me that I could jump into and use to really elevate my cycling.

Which is why when the, when the, when I saw the opportunity to do the route, it just was a no brainer because I had been searching for that challenge. So if you'd actually, before last year, I'd have said, absolutely yes, this is gonna spiral. I just dunno what direction. Now that I've completed cycling, I've made it to the very top of cycling.

I've literally completed the tour France Femme. It has taken such a huge amount of pressure off of me, and it's given me back my free will. So now if I'm on a ride and I'm just not enjoying it, I have full permission to just get on the train and come home. Like, it's just, I have nothing left to prove. It's giving me that freedom, right.

To like, because, or even if a hill defeats me, I can just be like, you know what? I completed the tour. I've got nothing left to prove

Rhona: Yes.

lumes: for? Right. And so it's,

Rhona: nice to hear.

lumes: yeah. So that's the season that I'm in now where it's like, yeah, I'll, I'll push myself, I'll do a day of the tour, or I'll go on this, you know, it's all on my just a cycling holiday.

Right. But it's one that I've had avoided for a very long time because I just thought, that's too big for me. But I've, I've been up, I've been through the Alps now, like I've done this, I've completed cycling. So anything now is just a bonus.

Rhona: Yeah, I think that's so nice to hear because I do think we can really get stuck into the trap just because of the way that our culture and society is like, you have to move on to the next thing and the next thing and act. But like, it's so nice to hear that you're kind of content, you know, you are just like, yeah, yeah.

And now you can just do, pick and choose the things that feel inspiring and exciting and fun. Um, I, I love that. I mean, they still sound challenging, but

lumes: Oh yeah.

Rhona: more, you know, I hope that when you're in the Dolomites, you stop and have a pizza, and you have a gelato and you know, you make it, you make it the way it's supposed to be.

lumes: Million percent. It's like, you know, you think back to school when, if, you know, I mean, this is never me, but I always saw the, the kids who are the smartest kids would finish their exams first, and they'd have to stay in the room for the whole time. So they would just start doodling because like they, they've done it, now they've finished.

So now I'm in the doodle, I'm in the doodle phase. But I think for anyone who's listening who is not, does not have the, the, the freedom to approach that and you're still in your spiral. The one thing that I would say is everything that we talked about with the, this whole idea of, um, of really trying to set your own goalposts and being careful about what default goalposts you're attaching your yourself to.

That would probably be the biggest piece I would say is you, you can decide for yourself what, how much you want to put into this and what would make you feel good if we just by default chase these external goalposts, nothing will ever feel good because we're just chasing we're, we're chasing things that are outside of us.

So all of it starts with sitting with yourself and really looking within to say, okay, well what do I want out of this? What do I, and it's okay to move the, it's okay to, you know, increase your goals and pick different ones and move that goalpost. But as long as you're being intentional about it and you like the reason why you're chasing that particular goalpost, you can't go wrong.

Make sure you like the reason why you're chasing it, and then choose for yourself what good looks like for you.

Rhona: Yes, absolutely. When you are having a TED Talk,

lumes: Yeah, this is my Ted, no, it's goal this, that I would get to where I can. Actually give a, a, a talk or be able to give talks around this concept because I'm so passionate about this. It's a, it's a thing that I would do if money was no object, this is what I would do full-time. But unfortunately, money is very much an object and I have a cycling lifestyle.

Rhona: Yeah.

lumes: well, I need to,

Rhona: did all of this whilst you work. What, what, what is your main job? What is what? Tell me more about like that, that side

lumes: yeah, so I work in tech and I do product management and I do program management as well. So it's like, uh, software ads. I'm just throwing buzzwords at you, so trying to keep it simple without going into the weeds. But yeah, basically I work in tech and so it can be really long days, especially seasonally, and so all of this training had to happen outside of work, and luckily my manager at the time was really understanding because again, it was for a good cause, so they gave me a little bit more flexibility so I could come in a little bit later if I had a training session or leave a little bit earlier.

So I was so incredibly privileged to go through that with the support structure that I had. Also, friends were super supportive as well with that too. My friends were really understanding of why I couldn't be as available because I was either working or I was on. I'm making up for lost time. Now I'm meeting all the babies that were born while, while I was, uh, occupied, otherwise occupied, and yeah, just making, yeah, really making it for lost time and really just enjoying all this new strength in the new legs.

Uh, but that wasn't your question. Your question was about, uh, fitting around work. Yes, it was, it was that it was sacrificing as well.

Rhona: hard to do it. I think especially your rest day is really hard around work because it's really easy to just then work a really long day, you know, work a 10 or 12 hour day on your rest day. Well, that doesn't really count as resting, you know, but you think like, oh, well I can't get, I can't do any long days on the days in training, so I'll just catch up on work on my rest day. So it's really difficult to balance the two together.

lumes: Yeah. Your body doesn't know, and I've learned this way too late as an learned this, this year. When I had a slightly minor issue with burnout, your body does not see the difference between training stress and work stress. All stress in the body is held exact same way. So you could not touch a bike for two days, but if you have two really busy stressful days at work, your body will process them as if you've been training really hard.

And then when you get on the bike after for the first time, you wonder why your legs are giving you nothing, it's because you're actually still fatigued, you haven't rested. So rest isn't just about being off of the bike or whatever activity you're doing. Rest is quite pretty predominantly around where your mind is at and the amount of stress that you have in your day.

So something to be mindful of because not everybody can control how much stress they have in their day, but you know, it's, you should be, just be wary. 'cause I learned that the hard way this year.

Rhona: Absolutely. Is your coach quite good at asking about the other things in your life, or is your coach just very focused on your training?

lumes: Uh, my new coaches. So when I got back from the tour, I changed coaches. I just needed, I wanted a fresh perspective and on, on my training plan, and I wanted to try a different system, a different approach to training. And she's awesome. She has been, we work to, uh, RPE, so, uh, rate of perceived exertion. Yeah, rate of perceived exertion.

We work too. And so when she's giving me strength sessions to on, on the training plan, she doesn't tell me what weights to lift, but she'll say, work to this RPE or work to this RPE, and then I can work better with my body on that day. And, you know, if it's like a weekday, I can do slightly less. And if it's a stronger day, then I can lift a little bit more.

So. We take into account what's happening outside of work and what's happening at work, and then we build that into the training plan. So I'm having the right amount of stimulus every single week, and I've seen incredible growth from taking that approach as well and mentally as well. Because if you, again, perfectionist mindset, you wanna do everything by the book to the exact numbers that you've been given.

But then when you're forced to really look within yourself and say, okay, well what, like what is, what's today's, uh, RPE versus yesterday's RPE, it forces you, it takes, takes the pressure off of that perfectionist view and forces you to really look within yourself and get to know your body really well, which is another thing that I was looking to do more of.

So it's less numbers focused and more learning yourself and learning what's going on on the inside.

Rhona: really good to become in tune with. Okay. So what does the rest day look like for you then?

lumes: Well, so today was a work from home day, so I, I was working all day today, but it was not a high stress. Day. So a typical rest day, I get two of those a week and I will normally be, try to sleep in if I can. So I'll sleep for as long as possible, go to bed as early as possible. I say early. I'd normally struggle to go to bed before like 11.

It's something that I'm trying to fix this year. That's another goal for this year is to get more sleep, but rest it. Oh, it's honestly, it's, it's everything. And I don't know why I'm kicking myself or always trying to run away from sleep as a child. I mean, you can't turn back time. But I think about all those times when we actively avoided sleep, or in my twenties when I would actively stay up all night.

Ugh, the thought of it now, just wasted time of sleep. But yeah, so try to sleep as much as possible and go on this never ending hunt for protein as much, as much protein as possible, as much as I can consume. So it's really just that. I have a previously would have a bad habit of going and doing like a Pilates class or doing some sort of movement just under the guise of, well, it's a lower effort, but I don't, I, I don't do that anymore.

So I'll, the heavy day, the training days, I'll load them really heavy and then, so I'll do Pilates bike and then I'll do a strength training session as well later in the evening or vice versa. Then on the rest days, I take them fully off, but again, it depends on the week, time of the month. It just depends on, on how all of that is, is going.

But yeah, it, it's usually as little as possible on a rest day. Yes,

Rhona: So I love to hear the rest days are the key days. That's the

lumes: they really.

Rhona: And it takes a long time to learn that, but I think you've learned it pretty fast to be fair. But you're, I think you're, you're, you're a wise one, you know, so.

lumes: I'm trying to be, we didn't have any rest days on the tour. The women don't get a rest day during the nine days. The men get two rest days because they do 25 days, I believe. So they get two rest days. The women don't get a single rest day. So by the, by the time we finished, I came back and I swore I would never ride in the rain again by choice.

If I'm outside and it's raining, fine, but I would never leave my house in the rain. On a bike ride, you're not, you're not gonna see me, and I would never go without rest again. So when I go on a cycling holiday, I don't ride every single day and now actively take a rest day. I was on a holiday a little while back with a friend and it was a bunch of other people there, and I mentioned that, oh, she was like, oh, are you riding on Wednesday?

I was like, no. She's like, wait, are you allowed to not ride? I was like. This is your hot. You're paying for this hot, you can do whatever you want. And she was like, it never occurred to me. And I was like, well, there you go. So we took a rest day and we sat by the pool and we just like napped all day, chatted, you know, just did absolutely nothing.

And she was like, this is a game changer. I never occurred to me. Then I could just rest. So everybody, you can rest on a cycling holiday. It's, I know it feels wasteful because you're like, oh, I've come all this way. Yeah, but you're still away. But just rest.

Rhona: a holiday, isn't it? Like you're

lumes: It's literally

Rhona: feeling recharged

lumes: Yes,

Rhona: and mentally, so

lumes: yes.

Rhona: need to, you're, you're gonna go, don't go home feeling absolutely beaten up and dread going into work because you're so knackered and you feel ruined. You need to go back feeling boosted.

lumes: Yeah. And I think people feel like they can, they won't get their money's worth if they don't take a rest day. 'cause obviously you work really hard. Holidays are not, not cheap. Changing our, the mindset around how rest is such a core part of all of the things that we're doing here. And without rest days, we're not gonna get our adaptations.

We're not gonna continue to grow unless we give ourselves the opportunity to like to rest. It's part of it, part of the holidays, having that pool day, you know, or just having the, having the off day. But yeah, every, everybody is different and some people need to just keep moving every day and that's completely fine.

It's interesting 'cause for a lot of people, um, I would say especially women rest can feel like, like true rest can feel like dying. And that's down to, you know, I mean, not to go off on a tangent now, but it's down to socialization. The way that we're socialized to believe that our value lies in our ability to produce.

Like, you know, being productive means that you are a value member of society. So if you stop producing, then all of a sudden you are lose your place in society. And our brains are scared of being outcast and all of that. So real rest, when you're actually not doing anything feels like the end of the world, it feels horrific.

It feels abs, it feels bad.

Rhona: When you get a puppy, you have to train the puppy to have rest, like, because they're just mental all the time and you have to just be like, no, this is your chill out time. And then they learn and they have these like. Really active spells and then they rest really well. And if you've done your puppy training well then when they're an adult dog, then they will be able to have to to be chill sometimes. And it's really good for them. And then they're physically really rested when they want to go out and run around and stuff. And I think it's super interesting 'cause like you've just said, I think you also have to train to rest, which sounds mental because can we just stop training to do things, you know?

But also I think there is something in that, sadly, especially because of the way we've been conditioned, where

lumes: Yes,

Rhona: we should be doing more. And you know, if we want to catch up and meet the standard that's been set for us, then we kind of have to be doing all the time. So

lumes: yes.

Rhona: we have to train ourselves to rest.

We have to learn it as a skill.

lumes: Yes. Oh, that's such a, uh, that's a great story about the puppy actually, that, um, I wasn't, aw, I didn't know that before. I, I don't have any pets, but I didn't know that. That's so cool. But yeah, no, it's exactly, you have to unlearn the socialization and learn, re readjust your relationship with not doing anything.

But I think a lot of people really struggle with that 'cause it's so uncomfortable. It doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel pleasant. And we think that rest is supposed to feel good, but rest is not supposed to feel good. Real rest feels terrible. But you have to just

Rhona: At

lumes: feel

Rhona: I think, I think

lumes: at first and then Exactly.

Exactly. I should, that's an important clarification. Thank you. Real rest at first feels terrible. And then the more you practice it the less tortorous it becomes.

Rhona: Absolutely. So with the, that lovely idea of rest, we, I think we, we, we should leave it there. This has been honestly amazing. I could talk to you forever. Um, I feel you, like you have so much wisdom. I just, yeah. I want you to just, I'm just gonna be waiting for your Instagram posts now for the little snippets

lumes: Oh,

Rhona: wisdom. Um, as as absolutely brilliant. You have such an amazing, uh, way of approaching things, probably, I guess from this way 'cause you've done this coaching, but you also, you're a very self-aware person and so it made this whole conversation really interesting. Thank

lumes: oh.

Rhona: much for being so honest and open.

lumes: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, and thank you so much for reaching out. Like I, um, it's any opportunity to really be able to share and spread this message far and wide about the value of rest. I think what you're doing is so incredible and I'm so happy that I get to, to support it in some small, small, con contributing way, shape, or form.

So thank you for everything that you're doing.

Rhona: See, I told you, an absolute legend. Some key gems I loved included Lume's perspective on rest not being easy and having to build into it. I loved how she is content with where she's at in life, and although she enjoys challenging herself, she does it on her own terms now. I look forward to seeing how Lumes approaches her future adventures, and will be repeating her wise words to myself when I need them.

Thanks for listening. If you want to find out everything Rest Days Community, you can follow us on Instagram @restdayscommunity, or check out the website restdayscommunity.com.